Lanterns Season 1 Finale Left Us With Questions!

Hal And John Big Question

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I got a question for you. Did Hal? I've got some questions as well, actually. But um did do you reckon Hal made John better? Or do you think that Hal ruined John?

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Realistically, probably no. I mean, the time we have with him and Hal is actually quite short.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Yep. Yep. Alright, we'll get into that and more in this episode of the Phantom Portals Podcast.

What Phantom Portals Is About

SPEAKER_00 0:27

Welcome to the Phantom Portals Podcast, the show that proves that your favorite Phantom movie and TV show has something to prove to you or to teach you. I'm Aaron, a teacher and a film fan, joined by Brash. How are you going today, Brash? I am. Yeah.

The Halogram Bond In Episode Seven

SPEAKER_00 0:42

I've just been talking about Hal and John's relationship, that mentor trainee relationship, and whether it became genuine love and respect, or whether there wasn't enough time in the series, or they didn't have enough time together for us to get to that. I know that was a very big part of episode seven where they spent a bit of time in that boat sailing across the ocean blue, and there was the fear toxin in the water. The fear ocean, the fear ocean. And that uh that kind of made them open up to one another, I could say, like a drug-induced confession. But from that moment on, they started to express some genuine concern, feelings, friendship for one another. They started to stop seeing the person as the obstacle and started seeing them as an ally or a help. But the thing that gripes me about that, brash, is he's doing that with the halogram, who's a 10-year previous version of Hal. That's the that's the less broken Hal. The less broken Hal. So he was probably more open to the fact of getting a trainee, doesn't know the ramifications of it, probably still trusts the Guardians. Nothing bad happened to Sinestro, he's the happy go-lucky guy. So him bonding with that Hal to me doesn't feel like any growth was had from old Hal.

Hal’s Death Feels Unsatisfying

SPEAKER_00 1:53

Because if we talk about, let's talk about it candidly, big spoilers ahead, guys. Obviously, old Hal met quite an untimely and maybe unsatisfying end.

SPEAKER_01 2:05

Yeah, I have to say it was very unsatisfying. Yeah. And like there was a part of me where was like, ooh, cloning technology, are they gonna bring him back? Yes. Anyway, yes, they did. But but they brought him back only to kill him again. Yeah. Pretty much he's like almost like pretty much died twice. Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 2:27

Like the the bit that graps me about Hal's death is the fact that he had come, I won't say so far, but he was starting to make some very big transitional steps in his journey of realizing what he'd done wrong, opening himself up to being wrong and correcting behaviors, like he was going around Rushville trying to help everybody out for the past that he had damaged, even to the point where he started a relationship with Kerry, something he'd never been able to do. And I feel like in these last moments, Hal was actually attempting to break away from that, like he was actively engaging in a relationship with Kerry that seemed vulnerable. She asked him to go to the football game, and he said, Together, like, do you want to see me as part of the couple? I'm open to that. Yes, very, very much.

SPEAKER_01 3:11

And then stood up in the restaurant, and yeah, that was such a good moment. Yeah, it's such a good moment. It was such a good moment, and declared, yeah, declared that they were together.

SPEAKER_00 3:18

And then if I literally said to the TV when that happened, I was like, Go Kerry, go you. And then 40 minutes later, I was like, Fuck you, Kerry. Such an overreaction. Yeah, absolutely. But look, I can try and justify it, and I do understand, you know, she's obviously been living with fear the same way that John's mother had been living with fear. John said that line, my mother held her breath the entire childhood that I was alive. Yeah. And same with Kerry, and she obviously overreacted in reaction to that fear. She thought Hal was going to do what he had previously done with a lot of manhunters. And look, behavioral patterns aside, Hal does have a history of, you know, going to the extremes to end extra traction.

SPEAKER_01 4:01

I would I would say that like because Hal wouldn't Hal wouldn't kill.

SPEAKER_00 4:06

No, absolutely. That's he said.

SPEAKER_01 4:08

I yeah, I still think he probably would have put him in Spazkaban. Yeah, or I would have tend to be or yeah, I think Carrie was afraid because she knows what happened last time Hal found out Bowman Hunter, as you're saying.

SPEAKER_00 4:22

Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:23

Shit went down. So she didn't want that to happen again, then the only way to do that is to silence anyone who knew.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

Yeah, absolutely. And I think that with the way that Hal died, it might be my conditioning because I've seen so many superhero movies and read so many superhero comics that you kind of expect the big resurrection, or you expect the big space battle, or you expect the defining moment of his death to be grand because he is a grand superhero. He has over 50 years of history, comic book, lore, but we know that this DCU is stepping away from a little bit of that, creating their own canon. That being said, like simple death, disappointingly simple, I'd say thematically perfect, though. It's kind of tragic, and he he wanted to live the simple life, and he did die in a I'll quote simple way. Like obviously, fear being you could say the perpetrator of his death as well through Kerry.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:17

And but it's still frustrating, man. It's still very, very frustrating because as we talked about through this series, we both have a very deep love for Hal Jordan. We love it.

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Yeah. All we got now is the fact that he beat Sinestro when he was still just a Green Lane, when he was still a Green Lane. Yeah. He sort of turned on the Guardians.

SPEAKER_00 5:32

And we sort of caught him on the decline as well. Like the decline of his career, he was jaded, he was old. And that's not me saying that Carl Chandler didn't do a great job. He is phenomenal. Like he plays this to perfection. There are so many times that you could look at this role and how it was written and say he could have played him as a jaded old veteran, which is a very strong archetype, done millions of times, but he made him lovable as well and redeemable. And he was an asshole, but you still loved him, and that's very tricky to do. Like generational casting, I'd say, in terms of the DCU. Yeah. It just, as you said, and I've seen lots of people say it before across the the fandoms, it sucks that we got nothing before this of Hal, because that would have made this end possibly not sweeter, but easier to palette, you know.

SPEAKER_01 6:16

Yeah, and I I would have I would have liked to see a flourishing Hal, like a champion, a hero, like the one they built a statue in Oa for Hal. Yeah. Because then seeing him when he's looking after John, or when you then you train him John and seeing how he sort of fell, you wouldn't see you would have seen the great man he is, and you would have seen his decline.

unknown 6:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

And you would have seen how like how a hero fell, and it would be a bit more reliable because all you see is when you first see how and you see him, and he's like, oh, first thing is all right, but then he goes like he gets a bit more grumpy and he doesn't care for looking after John and he's all jaded and shit. You're like, how how did you get jaded?

SPEAKER_00 7:01

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

And and and it's because it's because the guardians don't trust you as much as like you may be a hero because you saved him from Yellow Lantern and that, but he did come parallax for a bit and probably maybe hurt like a few or even maybe unintentionally killed a few other lanterns and shit who were trying to stop him while he was in parallax form until he overcame it and became good again. So now he's being jaded, like he's like I had I had to struggle and overcome so much, and now they're pushing me aside because they're not sure if they can trust me anymore. Yeah, and now he's looking now, they're gonna replace me with John. I feel like and I feel like that would be a more believable decline of how he got so jaded than just the stress of the job.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

Yeah, but also as well, his family legacy probably would have played a little bit of a part in that as well, in terms of Hal's relationship with

We Needed More Hal Backstory

SPEAKER_00 7:58

his father. But let's let's look at that relationship that he had with John, because that very much flourished in episode seven, but was brought to the head in episode eight as well. The mentor trainee relationship kind of does end up becoming genuine. We said before it was with the 10 years earlier Hal, the Halogram, and to me that felt shallow because I would have loved to have seen the older Hal come to that realization and become softer with John and become proud of him and see his potential because that would have shown Hal's growth a little bit more than saying this Hal's already too broken to see those things, but the Hal from 10 years ago, before he made all those mistakes, was was going to be good for him. And I feel like that's very John focused and not very Hal focused because the how that we got in terms of the Halogram was exactly what John needed. He started to praise him like he did in the car in episode seven. He said, You know, oh my god, you can you can maintain this construct without the ring on, that's absolutely amazing. Like he's praising him, and then in the end of episode eight, he actually says, You'll do a way better job at this than I ever will. And those are lines that we probably would never have heard old Hal say. Yeah. And it's kind of sad in terms of Hal's character development that he never got there, and he was kind of used as a cautionary tale, or I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

Yeah, and that the thing too, because like because I feel like the only real reason why he he could really say that you're gonna do a better job than I ever did is because what accolades do we know of that he did besides beat Sinestro?

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Yeah, well, he's the only one to have Sinestro was the only one to have killed the Guardian, and Hal obviously brought a stop to him, so yeah. That's the only accolades we know in terms of his Green Lantern lore and life, but we know that he was also the saviour of Earth a few times over, like videos and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

Yeah, which I'm assuming might be like the video show that happened when maybe Clark Kent rocked up.

SPEAKER_00 9:50

I actually think though that that halogram is the reason that John is becoming the lantern that he is allowed to be, and he actually was the one to influence a lot of John's programming, and I know programming is used a lot in episode eight. He influenced and gave him a lot of what he never received from his parents, like grace and an actual lesson for one, and there was no expectation on his success. He was kind of like a guide leading him through the various parts of being a Green Lantern, and he was there when he needed him, and it wasn't invasive because he was a halogram, he could only be summoned when John needed him, which kind of takes the accountability away from him being actually a mentor because it you know you could say right place, right time is ingrained in the fact that hey, I'm gonna consciously want my mentor around now. So here you are ready for him. And it puts no onus on the mentor to be like, I was there for my mentee when he needed me. It's literally like I have to be here because you summoned me, bruh.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:51

But you know, all of that aside, I think that Hal, in his mentality through that 10 years younger version, was a very good mentor to John and made him the lantern that he was today in the final episode.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Yeah, because it was going so well, and then when I realized we we don't realize we were like so close to the end. I I kind of got confused at how they were going to tie it up.

Finale Pacing And Loose Ends

SPEAKER_01 11:19

And I just I think the last episode just felt to me like crushed.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:26

I'm fulfilling is the word I'd use. Yeah, they they tried to they made sure to try and type it in loose ends as they not I've seen like jokes and memes now about how how about a guy now going to the guardian saying, hey man, this guy's kicked me off earth. And the guy's like, You're the guardian, what are you doing? Why are you letting you do that? Yeah, yeah, like so and another thing too is Sinestro made a lantern.

SPEAKER_00 11:54

Yep. With the veins of fear running through, which is definitely not gonna come back later.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

Well, that's what I think. Like, even when you like you first look at it, like where you insert the ring, the whole thing just looks yellow, and you're like, that's not gonna have corruption of like parallax in it. Yeah, like I'm like and I'm I was like, and that's why I that's why I think like this is what also annoys me. Sinestro, he was banished.

SPEAKER_00 12:21

Yeah, had no get to space to get him out of that prison.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

And that's nothing. No, that's why I mean if I'm like he had 10 years to do it, I suppose, and he didn't have alien tech.

SPEAKER_00 12:31

10 years to get there, okay. Yeah, oh yeah, okay. He had alien tech, yep. That was a gap in silence that we never saw about it.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

But yeah, like it now, I think they use that as a crutch though, the time skip in this in this instance, they use it as a crutch to be like, hey, holy shit happened in this fan because 10 years. But Sidestro gets caught, gets sent into a other dimension similar to like the Phantom Zone type thing, and the people inside that the side he gets into help him create a yellow lantern and a ring for him to become the Yellow Lantern and he breaks free. Oh, this is comic book law you're talking about now? This is comic book lore. This is comic book law, yeah. And he becomes the Yellow Lantern. He is by himself on a planet that has pretty much nothing, and he makes a lantern. He built this in a cave with a box of scraps. And like with especially with Green, with the Green Lantern, the power built on a planet is in the power inside of a lantern in fear as well, comes from Oa. Comes from fire o'er from the wheel at Oa. So people, when their lantern runs out of power, they go back and it gets recharged in and then you put the ring in and use some of the charge from the lantern to charge your ring. Yep. Not in this unsationed lantern. I'm just I'm saying lantern, how did he get any power from Oa?

SPEAKER_00 14:03

Not sure if it's not. Because he definitely doesn't have his ring anymore. Like Destro doesn't have his ring.

SPEAKER_01 14:07

And he somehow creates a lantern that when John uses it, it has well assumed we like he uses it and it's just all green. And you're like, I'm pretty sure there was yellow veins running through this thing, it was brought up.

SPEAKER_00 14:19

Why yeah, but it might be like smoking, you know. The first one doesn't kill you.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

It's the minute that you have many recharges you have after that.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

Even still, he recharged his ring. It went all green and glowy to recharge the ring. Where are they getting the power from Ola from? Did fucking Noah sneak onto Allah and also.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

We don't know. But you know what? I I think I would have been more happy if Noah actually did murder Hal.

Programming Versus Choice With Noah

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Because at least then it would have been justified as a like, but then you wouldn't have gotten the arc in terms of the programming versus choice, which is obviously what we saw when John was talking to Noah in the car. You know, Noah fears he's Manhunter programming and that it denies him any sort of human emotion that his mother gave him when they were growing up, and it's that nature versus nurture that Sinestro talks about as well. And he was like, we'll see how long it takes for the nurture of humans to dwindle down and wear away. And it was always there with Noah, he said, you know, because he actually did enact half of the plan. And like, look, you can say Noah used his free will to not enact that plan and follow through with the plan, but he used enough of the will to actually go through the portal, free Sinestro, get him to build a lantern, then come back and wait for it to be done. And the only reason he didn't follow through with the plan was because Hal went and stole the portal and locked it away in a safe, so he couldn't get back to get the lantern. It's just like Noah didn't really use his free will to stop himself from doing that, it was Hal that helped him get to that conclusion without Noah even knowing. Hal caught him. Yeah, exactly right. Like Hal caught him doing it. And you know, the Manhunter in him brought Hal back to life, but then Zoe also brought John back to life, and as John said, she could have also gotten him out of the car before she needed to resurrect him. It's the fact that manhunters need a transaction, like life and death is transactional. So I think Sinestro might be the most honest character in this show to to say it clearly, because you know John lets Noah live, like he gives him the choice that he rarely had or felt as a as a child, and that may or may not have been the right choice, but I feel like the definite wrong choice was not to at least arrest Kerry because that's what Hal would have wanted. Like, okay, yeah, there's no consequences for this murder of Green Fucking Lantern, like Green Lantern of Earth has been shot in the head and nobody is going to jail for it. And I'm mad about it, Brash.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Well, and so am I. And that's the thing. And he spent 10 years in in jail. Yeah. And he was the only person trying to help people. In that whole scenario, yes, it he did create what happened in a way, but that's because he was trying to stop someone who has mass murdered multiple planets.

SPEAKER_00 17:09

Yeah. Or at least a race that has wiped out civilizations. Like he can see the other side of it, whereas I feel like humans and earthlings need to zoom out a little bit and be like, oh, but it's not just about resting the town in Nebraska.

SPEAKER_01 17:22

The person who is meant to be the protector of this town, who they all they all see as protector of the town, and the people that and the person that they're protecting, she starts blowing everyone up. And Hal there, while trying to fight off everyone else and trying to capture the manhunter, is also trying to save lives.

unknown 17:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

He's the one that does the time.

SPEAKER_00 17:41

And also fight off at a potential like Jon Stewart from taking his ring as well.

SPEAKER_01 17:46

And that thing, too, if how if John hadn't stopped him from charging the ring, how could it probably save more lives, captured the manhunter, sent her off to Ola or wherever to probably get executed anyway by the Guardians. But what does John do instead? John makes sure that Hal can't you charge a ring kill Zoe anyway, and then more people get blown up.

SPEAKER_00 18:16

Like I think one thing we can definitely say about this series or the characters at least is that they're not clean. And I don't mean that as in like they don't fit into any sort of boxes, which is good for superhero media because it was starting to get pedestrian mainstream and predictable. And I think that the reason we're sort of barring up about this so much is because it's something we haven't seen before, which is good.

Guy Gardner Gets Pushed Out

SPEAKER_00 18:40

And DC is sort of tracking away from the regular canon of the comic books, which is also good in its own way, because we like to create new stories and live through new stories. But it the question that comes to my mind is how much more Guy Gardner are we going to see in projects centered on Earth because he's obviously been kicked out of this beat this jurisdiction by Jon Stewart. And that interaction between them was really good for me because John was so calm and almost like a this is what's happening, man.

SPEAKER_01 19:10

Yeah, this has happened. You can't stand it.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

So got guy could have just yeah, could have mopped the floor with a lot of it.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Yeah. Or I don't know what he could have done in terms of dob on him to the guardians, because he does have an unsanctioned ring and an unsanctioned lantern. Like surely the guardians of the universe could do something to put a stop to that, maybe. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

Like unless they use the guardians to do all of their dirty work. But I I also like that when he took it over from Guy, he told Guy that the reason you were chosen is because you're their errand boy, like you do everything that they want. And but he also reframed it and said, That's not a bad thing. You should be proud. You're the Green Lantern of this sector, which is absolutely true. I'm glad that he didn't take anything away from Guy or or shit on Guy, because you know, in that episode where he was burying Hal and he asked Guy to go up and get the uniform and get the ring. Like he didn't have to do that. That being said, though, let's let's talk more about John and how he's kind of built up through the episodes as well. And I feel like from where he came from, where he was completely conditioned by his parents and his journey with fear, I feel like his arc was very well developed in terms of what he has gone through. His ending was a very regret, he had a very satisfying too. And you know, I feel like he did get the mentor he deserved to have through Hal. And I like that they were able to both be emotionally vulnerable with each other. John obviously talked about how much his father and mother impacted him, and then that's when Hal sort of confessed the fact that his his father probably committed suicide, and you know, that's something that lingers within the his family line. And from that revelation, they kind of got closer and closer to the point where Hal would always be listening, and that was a comfort to John, where it got to the point where he was feeling in distress, and he would say, Come on, Hal, I need you, I need you now. Show me where you are. And then eventually at the very end, you know, they they said they loved each other, which is is good, but very, very I'll say quick, deep. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but I I liked the connection that they had.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

It was like it was meaningful, but at the same time, it was sort of like a a snide remark as well from Hal. So it was like just like a little bit of a quip because he's like asking what the last thing he said to Carrie was.

SPEAKER_00 21:38

So he doesn't have to say it first.

SPEAKER_01 21:39

Yeah, exactly. And so he's like, Oh, you said I love you, and I love you too, Junior.

SPEAKER_00 21:45

Yeah, it was I didn't like that he called him Junior though, because Junior was always associated with Jon Stewart Jr. and Junior was what his father called him, and his father wasn't very nice to him. So I don't like that he called him junior, and he always called him junior as like a negative quip. Hal was above him, so he called him Junior. And I know this time he said it with love, and I feel like and this is the the question I'm honoring as well.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

What I'm thinking is because well did the father really ever call him Junior?

SPEAKER_00 22:15

No, but he was John Stuart Jr. Yeah, he was John Stuart Jr.

SPEAKER_01 22:18

So yeah, but he was the father always called him John. It was only Hal that called him Junior because they met he made the connection later on. But I also think he called him Junior because he was like he's the he's like the junior deputy Lanton, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:31

Lanton Jr.

SPEAKER_01 22:33

Yeah, and he's called him Junior because he's the he's the young and in the ranks. And almost this time when he was like um I love you, like when he said I love you too, Junior. I think it was more of a like the the ment yeah, the sort of the mentor passing in touch, and like yeah, and especially the winter and and address and addressing him as his replacement.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

Yeah, replacement, but also like a kinship's not the right right word.

SPEAKER_01 23:02

No, like what I mean by replaying like a replay, what I mean by replacement, like almost like acknowledging that he accepts him as his replacement. Like he's actually his junior and he is now passing the torch.

SPEAKER_00 23:18

Yeah. Well, the thing I want to know is, and I've talked to a few people online about it, and I'm don't know where I sit because when Sinestro said, I can bring you back, Hal, I feel like that was him needing the halogram to do that. And then my question is obviously if John has now synced himself up, Bluetooth connected with this Green Lantern ring and the lantern, does that now delete Hal's Halogram? Like new owner, new, which which then actually means that we don't get any more Hal Jordan in terms of halogram.

SPEAKER_01 23:51

Yeah. Like the only way he can get him back is Hal can create, I'm assuming, create a new halogram. It probably just won't have the memories of the halogram.

SPEAKER_00 24:05

That's what I don't like, because it feels like John's relationship with Hal then is it's almost like he's made a relationship with an AI friend.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

He pretty much has.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

Yeah, and that's that's not a satisfying relationship to me because he obviously didn't go through the growth himself, Hal didn't, and then John fell for a version of Hal that never existed, quote Marx.

SPEAKER_01 24:25

Yeah, or or did exist, but existed at a time where he wasn't well, he wasn't the Hal that everyone knew.

SPEAKER_00 24:34

Yeah, and he never will become that version of him because those memories are stored in the halogram, which is in the ring, which has now been deleted because John synced up with fear veiny green lantern. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

The veiny lantern.

SPEAKER_00 24:50

Yeah, the veiny lantern that Sinestro

John’s New Oath And Autonomy

SPEAKER_00 24:52

made. So I'd like one thing I did like though about him connecting to that lantern was the new oath. I actually really liked that because of the emphasis on the choosing. He like, I choose this ring, I choose this fight. That was really good for me because I feel like the Green Lantern Oaths. I'm gonna show my my nerd cringe here, but they were always something that I was like, uh there's something about those comic book catch phrases like I'm the opposite.

SPEAKER_01 25:18

Really go on the oaths. I love the green the Green Lantern oath. I think it's so like it's just it's classic hero.

SPEAKER_00 25:27

Nah, it's so cringy to me, but also I'm the same with X-Men when they where they say come to me, my X-Men.

SPEAKER_01 25:34

I'm like, also no, I to me I'm an X-Men. No, I hate that. I really hate that because like no, you don't own me. And then and then because Xavier says it, and then when fucking Scott says it, yeah, yeah. No, I don't know. Yeah, Scott, fucking get it. Finally doing his fucking redemption for Scott.

SPEAKER_00 25:52

I like that I like, obviously, but I oh yeah, I don't like the Green Lantern oath, generally speaking. I love the new one I liked. I like John's.

SPEAKER_01 26:01

I I I like I don't I don't mind it, like it's fine, but for me, for me it doesn't roll off the tongue or doesn't sound it's a very personalized oath. Yeah, but like it doesn't like where the the original Green Lantern Green Lantern oath is pretty structured. This one it seems almost hike-witty in a way.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

Yeah, yeah, I can see that. But I think this one also represents an autonomy that the other one didn't. Like the other one, if we're talking Dungeons and Dragons terms, is very lawful good. Like you are in service of an organization that's greater than your.

SPEAKER_01 26:38

That's the thing about the original. That's one thing I was confused about when he's like, I understand he's like, oh yeah, the oath isn't sort of like my kind of oath, but the oath never says anything about the guardians. It it literally says that in Brighton's Day and Dark Night, no evil shot escape my sight, all those who be evil's night. Beware my power, Green Lantern's light. Yeah, it has nothing to do, it says nothing to do with the corp. It's all about no matter what the struggle, no matter what the evil, I will overcome it and I will defeat the evil.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

Where I feel like Johns does that as well, but he says, I choose it and I'm not answering to anyone above me. Yeah. And also, did you notice as well at the end he didn't say Green Lantern, he said this lantern.

SPEAKER_01 27:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

Well, because he's he's he's because Well, that's why they called the show lanterns.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

Well, I thought they were going to show the lanterns because they're gonna have more than one lantern. More than one lantern, we kind of have. Well, yeah, we had we had three lantern. The Vicky Yellow Lantern. And that's the that's the thing I that's the thing I do like about it. Like I do like how it is focused on his own thing, but then it comes back to the whole thing, how is he meant to recharge that lantern?

SPEAKER_00 27:43

Well, yeah, when that lantern runs out of charge, how is he going to recharge that lantern?

SPEAKER_01 27:48

I'm still coming to think of how they got the power from the into that lantern.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:54

And like all the all these unanswered questions, and that's why I think it felt a bit rushed. Because yes, they had 10 years to do it. So, yes, they may be able to sneak onto Ola and sort of open a gateway or something to get the power or something. I don't know. I don't know what the never it was never explained. It'll run out of this thing, and and that's it. And I do like its personal lines, and it's it feels more it feels more earth-based.

SPEAKER_00 28:20

Yeah, yeah. This this series definitely does, and it was always marketed as that too. So we're we're not here saying all these things because we're surprised by what they did. It's just like the execution of it, maybe isn't yeah. It was a very big character study, I think. It focused more on the character's journey and that that obviously succession was a was a big theme, and the programming versus choice and going through the episodes, that's basically what ran through this this lantern's series and overcoming fear and the effect of fear generationally. And one of my favorite lines in this whole series happened in this last episode where Carl Chandler's Hal Jordan actually said, you know, don't be afraid to be afraid. And I feel like that is the ultimate growth I wanted Hal to come to. And also I feel like it was powerful to tell to John because just an episode before that, he looks at Hal Jordan and says, Ask me if I was I'm afraid. And he said, Are you afraid? And he goes, Fuck no. I'm like, that's really performative.

SPEAKER_01 29:17

Yeah, and then and then falls into the fear river and starts fucking Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 29:22

Exactly. So it's it it shows that overcoming of fear through not getting it's that whole saying about bravery, you know, you're not brave because you're without fear, you're brave because you do it in spite of the fear, which I think is what Hal was getting to with that line. And I feel like in terms of that theme's trajectory, it did well with the like the notion of fear and learning to live with a fear and continuing to do the job you needed to do.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

It's gonna it's gonna be funny though, when the corruption of the lantern that Sinastro made causes him weak out. Well, it turns him into a yellow lantern, and then he uh which means he's let fear in, which in his new oath he says he's he's gonna accept like accept the you're gonna accept the fear? Like, yeah, you are of that venulism.

SPEAKER_00 30:10

Well, what what about John? What what's your feelings about John then here, Brash? Because I know obviously we're here on Hal saying we prefer the original lore version, even though Kyle Chandler did an amazing job, and I don't his version of Daphne. I I don't hate this version of Hal at all.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

And I just wish we had well, we had more of Hal background.

SPEAKER_00 30:31

But here's here's the question

Healing With Family And Fear

SPEAKER_00 30:32

as well. Like Hal Jordan was pretty much shunned as a lantern because he stopped following the Guardians so blindly. John was a person who followed the Guardian so blindly, and now by the end of the episode, he has stopped following the Guardians so blindly that he is now creating his own Green Lantern oath saying, I'm gonna do my own thing. And that's literally what Hal was doing, and it caused that 10-year decline for him in his Green Lantern career where nobody liked him, he never got any help. Where does this mean John's going?

SPEAKER_01 31:00

Well, I think depending like I think with I think the difference with John and Hal is Hal thought that he had to do it alone.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

That's what I want John's next growth path to be. Which I think him learning that he doesn't have to do it alone.

SPEAKER_01 31:16

With with yeah, because now he's going back, he's hanging with his family, and yeah, like all great scene too. Yeah, and I that's one of my favourite probably scenes in the last episode is when he when he gets back and he like hugs his brothers, hugs his father, and then goes up to his mum, and like you can sort of and when he hugs his mum, you can sort of see she lets her breath go. I was gonna say, yeah, you get you can almost like it's such a fucking amazing performance. Yeah, yeah. Such amazing performance. Really good. Jasmine fantastic job. But yeah, you see that yeah, almost like she like actually finally let's go and finally exhale instead of holding her breath.

SPEAKER_00 31:54

I like that John was of an age and of an experience level where you know how sometimes your parents do things in your past and you you hold that against them for so long and the relationship deteriorates for it, but then you get to an age where you kind of understand where not where they were coming from, but the reasons for or the justifications why, or or the mentalities that they might have been having and that maturity that you have through experience allows you to be a little bit more sympathetic, empathetic towards, and not always as well, but it you know, it allows you to be a bit more empathetic towards the things that may or may not have gone your way. Yeah, which I feel like this has come to a result. Like it doesn't mean that John thinks that what his mother and father did was right by any means, but it means that he's not gonna let that control his future so he can be his own person and he can still love his family and his parents, but they're not gonna have that sort of hold on him anymore, and the relationship can move forward after that, which is I like that part of it.

SPEAKER_01 32:51

Oh yeah, yeah, and that's the thing, like that, and that's that's my thing. Like the whole entire the show itself was really good. The acting was phenomenal, the casting was amazing.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

I feel like the story was even pretty good, like yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:04

Well, I was saying the story was good. The story was like was really good. I just feel the the last like it was sort of like just the last episode the Gary and the Noah thing, and it sort of I don't know, it it sort of felt I don't know what that does for her character too.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

Like a woman in power who has control like literally stood up in front of all of Rushville to say, hey, we're not gonna let fear control us anymore. We're not gonna let the past determine our actions in the future. We love Hal. And she's literally feared to stop Baston turns around and says, Yeah, Baston, let's let's the pew pew go. Oh yeah, and it was tries to cover it up, but then calls John because John might be able to figure out whether she's raising a monster or not. Like it goes back to that theme of fear-driven parenting as well. Obviously, John's mother went through that with him, fear-driven, like wanting him to succeed so badly that you do absolutely anything it takes to make sure that your your son doesn't, and that's to the extreme level, is what the Stuarts did. And then there's Carrie through Noah, who was using that fear-driven parenting, trying to like love him so much and give him all of this nurturing that the programming, in quotes, will say of his nature as a manhunter wouldn't come through to the surface. And I think that's the fear that lived in her that made her then call John to, you know, check it out to see to see if he was actually gonna turn around and go into politics. You know, he's got he's on the pathway, like he could potentially be on the pathway to do that. A very powerful young man. The temptation was always.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

They just seemed like they didn't seem they didn't seem alien.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

No, it didn't. And I feel like John justifies that though, because he says by the time he killed Zoe, it was like a mercy kill pretty much. She was she was overdoing what she was doing, she wanted that that mercy shot. And I feel like that Noah is almost very similar when he asks John to kill him, and that's not very manhunter-y, if you want to use that adjective. And I think it's because these manhunters are removed from the actual species that we well.

SPEAKER_01 35:38

See, I I think I think John says that it was a mercy kill for thing that she wanted to die.

SPEAKER_00 35:43

I don't believe that. What a second. She's maybe that's how he's justified it over the 10 years.

SPEAKER_01 35:47

I can probably because she was she's a pureblood manhunter.

SPEAKER_00 35:52

Like, I think, yeah, I think no one got here with Abensua from the pureblood mountains of Manhunter.

SPEAKER_01 35:59

Yeah, well, that's it. Like, she was she was pureblood manhunter, their whole thing is survival. There was no nature or nurture for her to be like, I might be doing something that's not great. She's like, no.

SPEAKER_00 36:12

Every move she made was calculated, every relationship she had.

SPEAKER_01 36:16

Yeah, was calculated into building strength to then wipe out a planet.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

Oh, you yeah, use it against those people of power.

SPEAKER_01 36:24

I can see Noah because of the fact that Noah was born from Kerry in a way.

SPEAKER_00 36:33

Part part human. Part human, I suppose.

SPEAKER_01 36:35

Immaculately conceived. Yeah, through the pinky. I can see his nature verse nurture sort of thing. Yeah, I can see him doing the whole thing.

SPEAKER_00 36:44

See, that that's an interesting character dynamic, isn't it? I would watch an a Noah show where he's wrestling with that, and then if they made a really good plot element surrounding it as well. So that's a good theme to explore in the future for for his character if we ever do.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

I don't believe I don't believe for Zoe. Even though his album's like, oh, she was tired for her decades and decades and thousands of years of doing manhunting. You gotta remember he was purely programmed. Man, she is not Jay, she is a robot.

SPEAKER_00 37:13

But also, she put herself in in a position with John to be sympathized with, you know, like she was that love interest for John. And yeah, John's his hardened marine, but he's also someone who hasn't had any kind of connection for pretty much his whole life. Any form of I won't say love because he definitely had love, but any sort of intimate connection, I'll say. So Zoe honed in on that, gave that to him, and then used it to manipulate him how she needed to. So I think I agree. I think Zoe was, despite what they what John said, Zoe was Manhunter to the core. But Noah definitely has that internal battle, that struggle, which is yeah, yeah, so this last thing

Sparing Noah And Sinestro’s Return

SPEAKER_00 37:53

we'll talk about. How do you feel about John letting Noah live for for one a life? Like, is that something that's gonna bite him?

SPEAKER_01 38:00

It can be a pullpoint for the future.

SPEAKER_00 38:02

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

That's all I see that as all I see that as a pullpoint.

SPEAKER_00 38:07

There has to be someone here on Earth who will be capable of stopping him, and it's just like puff your own chest there, buddy. Yeah, we know it's you.

SPEAKER_01 38:14

Well, and it could be a thing, it could be a thing for Sinestro to pull on later.

SPEAKER_00 38:18

Yep. Yep, because he doesn't have enough with the lantern.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

Yeah, Sinestro is aware of the fact that there's a man hunter on Earth and who it is. Yeah. So he can use that and sort of maybe try and corrupt Noah to turn Noah into the Manhunter and use him as a weapon.

SPEAKER_00 38:34

Yeah. I I didn't I'm of a different I'm of a weird opinion about Sinestro because I do like the fact that they left him on that planet screaming in the distance. Like that's classic supervillain, leave him there to rot kind of thing. But that also screams Sinestro will return in Avengers Doomsday, kind of thing, you know? Yeah, like I will have my revenge kind of thing.

SPEAKER_01 38:56

So yeah, and that that's why I wish it had been already Yellow Lantern.

SPEAKER_00 39:02

He's on his way, man. I reckon him spending time on that fear planet will teach him to master fear. I I I see it as a minute, probably a missed opportunity. I see it as a mistake waiting to happen in terms of Noah being left alive. Oh, yeah, I'm sorry. I was like that. Maybe that's dark of me to say. Like I've I feel like John does give him the choice to see if his nature overrides his or his nurture overrides his nature, but how many people are gonna die while Noah is.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

It could be sort of like a sentry thing.

SPEAKER_00 39:30

Yeah, well that's true too. Yeah, sentry from Thunderbolts, the new Avengers. Yeah, it could be like I feel like the Sentries Jacqueline Heights. Actually, you're absolutely right with that one. You're absolutely right there because yeah, the sentry is pretty much like I was gonna say, no, it's a mental illness, but you could you could kind of argue that Noah's is like a programming mental situation as well. So yeah, yeah, I do see that. He does see the human side. There you go. Look at me. I need to be sympath like more empathetic towards the side.

SPEAKER_01 39:59

Yeah, but like his his his maybe his manhunter side may maybe eventually might grow strong enough to like shut Noah's other side down.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

Well, we don't know what happens when he hits the end of puberty, adulthood. We don't know.

SPEAKER_01 40:14

Allowing him to maybe like not for long periods of time, but brief periods of time, the manhunter side might take over, do some plotting in the background or some shit, and then also deciding.

SPEAKER_00 40:26

Yeah, Noah might not even know. Not even realise. Yeah, look. Call Monday, we got the plot for the season two.

SPEAKER_01 40:34

But yeah, but yeah, but but my thing is yeah, now that now that now that Lanson's over, I pretty much feel like we can't have any more Lant Lance's show.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

Well, I think they're because I don't see H- I think they were developing season two, but HBO hasn't greenlit it yet.

SPEAKER_01 40:52

I honestly don't see how they can do a season two now that like all players.

SPEAKER_00 40:57

It won't happen all the players and nanna of tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01 40:59

Yeah, but all the players are set. And if if how if John Stewart's Green Land is becoming one of the mainstays for the Justice League, won't run depending on what if they're using the Justice League or if they're using the Justice Society or if they're using JL JLA, Justice League of America, I feel like he probably can no longer be in TV shows. He'll have to be now a movie character.

SPEAKER_00 41:23

Well, then they'll fall into the Marvel trap, won't they? How you've got to watch this TV show and this movie, and then after that it's this TV show and then two movies and then a TV show to follow all the time.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

That's what I mean. So yeah, so they can't go back to a TV show with Jon Stewart because then that's the thing. So John Stewart's gonna be in the Man of Tomorrow movie, then he's gonna be another TV show, and then he's gonna be in a Justice League movie.

SPEAKER_00 41:47

Like he's gonna be like it's all right for a character like Guy Gardner because he does show up in all these different things.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

Yeah, and then he's he's a he's a tertiary character, you know.

SPEAKER_00 41:57

He is like Peacemaker, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:59

Like, and and that's uh and and that's why I wish like that they had have had a Sinestro already and Hal's arc, a Sinestro's big arc already done, and now we've got old jaded Hal at the end. Because then if they wanted to, and I I know Carl Chandler's a great job, but I kind of wish they used a younger actor for the for the next one, which I'm regrettably saying because Carl Chandler is generation-facing.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

But if I have to do the same for Sinestro, you can't de-nate de-age- not for an extended show. All

Wrap Up And Where Next

SPEAKER_00 42:34

right. That will probably do it for us for this episode of the Fandom Portals, guys. That was our recap episode for episode seven and episode eight of Lanterns. We've enjoyed this lantern's run. It's been really good to keep up with a TV show consistently and put some content out on it every week, which has been good. We'll have to look at something that we're going to be doing in the future. Crash, in that sort of regard as well, because it's been really good to just sit down and chat about something that we'll be watching, which is good. So if you are a person who is watching this right now on YouTube and you're not subscribed, the button is right down there. Make sure you press it. There's a world of good for us. You can see when all our videos come out and we we make a few of them. If you're a listener instead, then Spotify and Apple Podcasts is where you'll find us. Those links are in the show notes below. But also if you type fandom portals into your apps, you'll find us there too. Where pink and purple, you can't miss us bright colours. So that's us. This is me signing out. Thank you for joining us on this lantern's run, guys. It has been absolutely a blast. Keep learning, keep drawing, keep loving. Fandoms. I'm here. See you through the next portal. Bye.