Lanterns Episode 5 Breakdown | John Stewart REJECTS the Green Lantern Ring

Stand-In Hosts Take The Helm

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Hey everybody, we have a special episode of Fandom Portals today. I am obviously not Aaron. This is Thomas. I'm also joined with I'm Frank, obviously not Brash, so yeah, just jumping in.

SPEAKER_01 0:12

Uh you know, Aaron's got some personal stuff, so we're we're gonna take the realm today. The helm.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

Yeah, so this is gonna be fun. I've been following this show. Admittedly, giant Green Lantern fan, not necessarily a Hal Jordan fan, not necessarily a Jon Stewart fan, but just a fan of the character. Have been since I was a little kid, so this show has meant a lot to me so far, but I think this is an interesting one to jump in on. It's a culmination of a lot of things, especially in the 2016 timeline. So I have not had a chance to really talk to anybody about this because of personal reasons of my own, making New House a home. And so I'm super excited to talk to you today, Frank, and hear what your thoughts are about this episode.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

Yeah, I think one of the key highlights on this is that it is the end of the 2016 storyline, and then next week we're gonna be getting the start of the 2026 storyline. One editor's point I want to add into this. We heard from the writer of episode three that that was actually supposed to be episode five. So I think the it actually works better if they stuck to the old way, even to the point where they revealed the Guardian in this one when they revealed the actor. It was clearly that was supposed to be the first time you saw that actor. And so the episode where we see John's backstory is actually supposed to be right after this, and then we launch into the 2026 story.

SPEAKER_00 1:32

I don't know if I would have liked that. I I really like having John's backstory already because it shows how much he had to sacrifice to get to where he is now, and then we're talking full spoilers here, everybody. So if you have not watched the episode, please go out there and go watch this awesome episode and then come back because I'm gonna spoil something in three, two, one. John doesn't take the ring, and for me, that is I I think that was one of the best things that happens in this

Why The Timeline Order Matters

SPEAKER_00 2:05

episode. It totally makes sense for his character at this moment, and it's such it's so hard for him to do because of all he had to sacrifice his whole life to get to this point and to realize he doesn't want it. But yeah, we can get into more of a rundown.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Yeah, let's go ahead and start with that. We're gonna begin off with a a bit of a little prequel going on where we got to see Carrie Kane. She's driving into Rushville, obviously on a run, and her car breaks down, and bad guys are after her, right? Classic old school Gotham. She escaped Gotham where the mob's fully in control. This is before Bruce Wayne, and she needs help. She gets it to a diner, and luckily there comes Zoe.

SPEAKER_00 2:42

Yeah. Do you subscribe to the fact, because the rumors are going crazy out there, that she is Batwoman or she's related to Bruce Wayne in some way?

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Well, there's the Kane name is too popular or too important to just use Willie and Nilly, right? I think she's at least a cousin because Martha Wayne is actually Martha Kane Wayne, and I think she's part of that branch. Is she straight up Batwoman? I wouldn't hate it, but I also think that we're destined to see something different out of her in this series. Uh, my prediction is that she and Hal maybe get married or at least become a couple and raise the child together. So I don't know. Would you want her to be Martha or to be Batwoman?

SPEAKER_00 3:19

This is and this is nothing against this actress because she's doing an awesome job. But she's a little older than I would hope. But then again, we got an older Hal Jordan in this. Maybe I don't know. She seems like she'd be a little old too old in some ways to be Batwoman. Although she's a fantastic actor, so I I don't know. And also like the fact that she kind of has a son already, that's a huge change. That's that woman is canonically known to be a lesbian, and that's a big part of her character. So I feel like that would take away something from that character. So I don't know. I don't think I I don't think I would. I think I like her being her own separate thing, but having even if she's like related to the Wayne's or Bruce Wayne in some way, but not that woman, I'd I'd still like that.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

I think that's I think that's I think that's just inevitable because the Kane name, again, it's like trying to use the Wayne name, you know, or or whatever in Gotham. Nah, well, you know what that means. Same thing. If you guys disagree with any of the theories that we bring up, you make sure to hit up at Phantom Portals and complain to that account.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Yeah. Be like, Eric, who's these guys that stepped in for you? They suck. They're their opinions and theories are garbage.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

Uh so what did we learn from this this flashback? I thought, you know, it's very interesting to see that that I'm sorry, that uh Carrie is working from a point of survivability this entire time. So her loyal b loyalty to Zoe goes as far as to keep herself alive, and then of course her son. So anytime that we see her kind of bending the rules for maybe Hal or for somebody else, I think it's with the intention of like almost being controlled and manipulated by somebody else. And I think that can go for a lot of people in Rushville. Do you think she's having that effect on others?

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Yeah, absolutely. It it is interesting, right? She gives her a new, what do they call it, like sacred life or a new opportunity at a new life. Yeah, basically. And it's interesting that people thought, like, well, what else did you like does she owe Zoe? You know, I'm like, what do you mean? Like that she gave her a whole new fresh start. That's that's enough in my mind. So also, yes, we have the son of it all, which I think we need to well, we need to have a little section later on to talk about Noah. Because that's a that's an interesting

Carrie Kane Flashback And Batwoman Theories

SPEAKER_00 5:30

thread throughout this episode, and then ties it back to the first episode and also what we hear about at the beginning of 2026 before John walks up and sees Hal's body. So there's something there, but yeah, you get to see that. Yeah, I think that alone was like, hey, I'll protect you. And it's interesting to think now Zoe has done this for almost everybody in town in some way, you know, whether it is medicine that we've seen from for Will Macon. Is it Will Macon? Or is that the son? For the Macon. We'll just say Macon. Yeah, I'm getting the dad's son's name mixed up here, but it it's interesting to think that she has that much pull. But I guess over 30 years, meeting everybody in town. And so, yeah, they are now all hands on deck to try to protect her. Interesting for me though, in this episode, it was I I found the first time watching it through, I was a little confused as to like what was going on in the town and all the chaos. I I I know now that it was basically to protect Zoe or protect the Manhunter, but also dang, she just is sacrificing everybody in the town.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

And I'm like, how manhunters though, for you to think that there's a chance for her to be a decent person, and it's just like that's never the case with manhunters. I mean, Atrocitus has a better chance of helping you out than the manhunter does, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Yeah, yes. I think I find it interesting though, I will say, because like my comic knowledge, which is limited, but still, like, even from like the DC cartoons or like the justly cartoons, they are still a little bit more robotic. So the fact that she had so much emotion, I think, in this episode, is still kind of confusing to me. Like, it doesn't land as well as I think it does for people who maybe are not that familiar with Manhunters. So for me, like I think she was kind of one of the weaker points of this episode. I didn't necessarily like how much in a way she was showing, although Anton later says, you know, emotions is is one of their greatest tools and tactics. But I don't know, I I just really didn't like the way that they kind of played into like, well, she's a manhunter, she'll sacrifice everybody, but also like she's having everybody t tell everybody that she loves them, and she's also you know, saying she loves them. I don't know. It just felt like is she emotionless or is she not? Or you know what I mean? Like, I don't know. I felt like they were.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

I think absolutely everything is manipulative for her. So she is emotional, only to the sense that it helps move a needle somewhere else. It is not true for herself, I think.

SPEAKER_00 8:05

Okay, I can see that. It just it did feel though, yeah, because then she then I think that we can get up to the point where we get back to how the last episode ended, yeah, with John being in the car, you know, Hal jumps out as he does.

SPEAKER_01 8:19

That man, uh yeah, he gets driver's training, he doesn't know where the brakes are at. He thinks that's how you do it every time. He's just out.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

Yeah, yeah. He's pulling driving lessons from like the 70s or something, where he's just like, all right, see you later. And pins John in the car, and we see, you know, I put something out there online, and and I I do believe it was not Hal's intention to leave John in a car that was going to catch on fire and then eventually explode, then burning John. I don't I don't think that was the intention, but I have also said Hal is a pilot, he's a trained pilot, he knows what happens after crashes, he knows that they are vehicles with fuel, with uh electrical components in it. I think that was whether he meant to or not, that was a pretty careless move on Hal's part. And for how John eventually sees Hal in this episode, I think he's has every right to kick his ass in that moment because that that just seems like so stupid to me by Hal.

SPEAKER_01 9:25

So I I am of two minds on this. So, first of all, when I think of Hal in the light that I've always seen Hal growing up, I think that Hal is doing that to make John the bait to try to get Zoe distracted. And if that's the case, it worked great and it got Zoe out into the open and off to the side so that he could go on to his business without her watching him. The other side of this coin is when you watch the post episode thing, which is an HBO movie that I absolutely love, the directors are saying stuff that I think they're wrong about about their own their own character and their own script. They're saying that Hal is drunk on power, addicted to power, and thinks the only thing that matters is keeping the ring on his finger. Bullshit. That's not the character that's that I'm watching. Now, I know that I'm wrong because they literally are the one that made him, but I'm telling you, you are wrong about the character you made, you know?

SPEAKER_00 10:15

So it's really tough. Well, yeah, I mean, I think I'm gonna say this is the least like I think that why I don't really like this episode. Thematically, I think it works perfect. I think it makes a ton of sense why the characters are doing all of what they're doing, but it's because this is the episode where I truly just despise Hal. I was like, I I I was never one of those people in the first four episodes that was like, oh, Hal sucks and he's terrible. I was like, they're gonna explain it, they're gonna explain it. Right. But this episode, I was like, oh, you know what? F Hal, I I hate Hal now. And I have never felt that way about him. Granted, I got into comics after he had already been parallax, and I didn't really know the whole parallax thing. I didn't really know how that tied to Hal Jordan from the comics. I I got into Green Lantern comics during the Kyle Rayner run when he was the Green Lantern, and you know, how was this distant memory? He was the old gun, and you know, I I just I didn't know a lot about him. And so this this episode for me was like, Hal sucks. And you know, I just don't know how I can really like him moving forward. Granted, I know we're getting a flashback to his story, and they're gonna explain it, but I don't see how it's gonna redeem him for me. I think I just I I get granted I know he's people's favorite, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:34

Yeah, it's it's been a whole lot of like just I'll trust you guys, I'll trust you guys. And at this point, I would stop trusting them. But I do want to jump in in a one defense on how for this episode is we got to see what he's like in action. And the fact that he knows that the point of these these attacks is to drain the ring, and yet he's still trying to use it to the best of his abilities to protect people, and the fact that he's like, you know, everybody in town dislikes him at this point, but he's actively trying to save people out

Zoe’s Hold Over Rushville

SPEAKER_01 12:00

of cars and stuff like that. I'm like, that's how Jordan right there. I just wish that and I again I'm trying to really extrapolate what this could be, you know, over a bigger picture, and say, like, oh, how Jordan under pressure is acting like real Hal Jordan, and the Hal Jordan that's that's trying to be the detective is the one that's you know purposely not right. Of course, I don't actually think that's gonna happen, but it's just me trying to save the character I love. And and but but I do like those moments when he blocked that laser coming down. I was like, that is some classic, not just Green Lantern, Hal Jordan Green Lantern. That felt good. Or when he put the shield up when Terry's shooting at him, I was like, that is some clean Green Lantern right there, you know?

SPEAKER_00 12:39

Yeah, I mean he definitely had cool action moments. Yeah, I won't debate that. I I just yeah, I'm so out on him as being Green Lantern. Like, I w I actively am preferring Guy Gardner over him now. Like, that's how much I feel like they've tainted him. Yeah, I know it's it's crazy, but like Guy has shown more code of ethics than Hal has. You know, in in the few times we've seen, granted, Guy was a dick to Peacemaker, but like, and he was a dick to Superman, but he showed up when it counts, and I guess Hal is too. But I I guess I just never I don't know who the villain is like who everybody seems like the villain to Hal. And maybe that's because Sinestro.

SPEAKER_01 13:24

Yeah. Well, I just want to throw in real quick to add on to that. I could you could really argue that everybody in the story, except for possibly Carrie herself, is an optional villain. Even Jon Stewart, the way he's like, he's gotta take the job. We have is this a tr uh art Anton or is it a trade? Uh goddamn it, the Red Red Ranger. Red Oh my god, I'm doing it. Thank you, Transit is so like everybody has other possible answers, and it's like only Carrie's good. But yeah, so it's it kind of just it makes a really good show sometimes frustrating when it's like I just want to root for somebody. And even Carrie for a while there I thought she might have been been the manhunt stuff.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Right, yeah, yeah. I I think this episode totally recontextualizes Sheriff Carrie too, because now we realize well, all that time she was playing dumb, she knew. Like, if you go back and watch the four episodes before this, minus the Jon Stewart episode, she's playing dumb the whole time. She's like a manhunter and an alien android in our town, and then you realize no, she was just lying to him, too. So she actually kind of for me became tainted in this episode because all that time where you thought maybe she's like, I'm not on her side, I'm not on anybody's side, I'm on my side. It's like, no, you're not, you're actually on her side, so she's a liar too. So it it really, yeah. This episode, like I said, like I I'm a little bit of two minds on this one because I think from the action standpoint, like you're saying, to see how Jordan in action to fly, to to do the blast, to shield the city, all that's so dope. It's so cool. But also, I'm like, screw how at this point, John he whether he meant to or not, again, John ends up getting exploded in his car, gets burned alive, the manhunter lets it happen, then heals him, and he has to like uh she opens up to him, and I think this is an important conversation to highlight because they really wanted it to. She talks about why she chose the the race she is in the show, and also like why this town and everything, and she said, Well, to understand power, I had to be somebody who is an outsider, but also seen as less. And I I I I find it a really interesting conversation. I did also find it, and I think it's awesome what they're trying to get at. I did find it a little heavy-handed, but I was like, Oh, that's an interesting perspective. And knowing that they have a multiracial writing room and everything, I was like, okay, so you know, I I think that it is nice that they're finding power in what is normally seen as being disenfranchised or seen as not getting the same opportunities as like a white person would have, you know, in America, maybe around the world. So I did find it like an interesting conversation, but I don't know how did that conversation land for you?

SPEAKER_01 16:15

Well, again, I'm watching this with the knowledge that you know this was actually episode four, and then episode five's coming up. So, one thing I was pretty interested in is how like it's amazing how this manhunter knows more about race in the United States than the Guardians that have how. Right. And so I thought that was an interesting take of like, then you're presumably gonna watch this next episode and see that the guardians are wrong, that they don't even get it when the manhunter used that to her advantage. And like how how and I think that's actually a a pretty big theme in all of Green Lantern stories is that the Guardians are so naive. They they are just I mean, like the Manhunters are a good example of that. Like, I love the Guardians for what they are trying to do, but never for their execution. It's always how specifically, or at least the Green Lantern core, that save their butts every time. And it's just like one of those things where it's like, and Thor can't lift his hammer anymore. Like, it's just a trope amongst the stories. And so even to the point now where I, you know, this is off topic a bit, but I think this specific guardian is not a guardian, this is not a guardian that we like. I think it's, you know, Scar or somebody like that. Somebody it's an outsider guardian. And and it might be one of those things I'm doing exactly like with Hal, where I'm just trying to find excuses for this show to get closer to the comic books. And they may never do that, but that's that's one of my thoughts.

SPEAKER_00 17:33

Yeah, it seems like it purposely tried to trick us, like, oh, you have comic book knowledge? Oh, Anton's not atrocitous, he's just some random alien that like tried to have babies with the manhunter, and you know, the manhunter used it and like took down his whole planet or whatever. Uh yeah, I I don't know how I feel about that either, because I I think in some ways I get it because comic you know, when you look at Marvel, like everybody can predict everything now, they can predict then, right? Then it's like, okay, I know this person is this person. I get it, and that gets old, but also it does feel like you're just changing it because you don't want people to catch on. And like some part about that feels a little disingenuous to me, too. But you know, or maybe it's just part of the whole mystery. So yeah, but I very much agree with you. I don't think that this is necessarily one of the guardians that's a part of the the main guardians, or you know, right. This guardian is not in the inner circle, they they're like doing their own thing now.

SPEAKER_01 18:32

One of the rebel guardians, something like that. And then let's talk about Anton because that is the next person I want to make sure to talk about. We had that part where you first off goes to the ranch and that conversation where they try to fake Macon as the manhunter. I thought that was pretty

Hal’s Choices And Ring Addiction Debate

SPEAKER_01 18:45

well executed, especially for Macon's point. I mean, it's a good performance, first of all, but also like can you imagine how much stress as a as that character must be under? Like, you know, you're coming face to face with an alien hit squad, and you have to speak a language that your alien wife taught you, and know facts about a very close relationship that they had. So you're talking to basically your wife's ex-boyfriend. I'm just thinking, like, shout out to Makon Man, that was not an easy part to play.

SPEAKER_00 19:15

Yeah, yeah. The one thing though, after a rewatch, though, is like, why did he turn off the lasers? Like, he had the lasers ready to go.

SPEAKER_01 19:25

I'm like, do not trust him. Oh, and oh, by the way, use the damn laser and shoot his yeah, he even had a gun that he then like just put down.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

I was like, What? Yeah, I don't understand. Yeah, I guess there's too many things for me in this episode, and it's getting rave reviews, and there's like too many things in this where I'm like, that's a really weird choice. And I do think I agree with you. I think it's amazing that he learned the language and that he, you know, found like he memorized the whole backstory, but then it's all for kind of nothing.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

Yes, it was all smoke and mirrors, it's all just for show. This episode, because it's the finale of one timeline, it felt like the finale of the series or the season, I'm sorry. And so I think there is a kind of that that feeling of like, holy cow, this is amazing. It's like when you when you first watch The Justice League from Zach's Night, you're like, it's just so neat to see Aquaman and Flash talk together. Then it does not take too long, so you're like, man, that was a lot of slow-mo. And in this one, I think it's like, wow, there's a lot of empty, empty plot or plot holes, or there's a lot of loops and stuff like that that they're doubling back on that they didn't need to. A lot of things like that. And so I think when you and I who do rewatches and are writing notes during this, we might see that. And now we're unfortunately having to remind people about it at home. You're like, hey, they know that thing you just liked. Well, check out all the things that are wrong with it. Like the fact that Anton was just wasted when when Hal threw Anton in the air and then he blew up. I was like, How the f are you gonna blow him up? He's gotta be important, but he just killed himself, and suddenly the entire plot is gone, it's just gone now. Yeah, it's crazy to me.

SPEAKER_00 20:55

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was it is crazy to me. I mean, there's just there were so many things here. He felt like such a large threat. Yeah, you know, they ambush Hal at the diner, and they're just like apparently like killing people in the streets and stuff like that. And then what happened to the rest of the them? Like, I don't I don't know. So it yeah, I I feel like, yeah, I I think we would have been better served if he was atrocitous. And you know, like maybe how doesn't blow him up, but he like severely hurts him in the tornado, and then his true form shows, and then you know, he's he's just messed up in the field and something glows red, or whatever. I would have been like, okay, cool. Like, but yeah, it felt like a weird kind of dead end a little bit on that. But I will say the fight sequence leading up to that was very dope, and I thought it was very cool. I liked the the smoke goggles and how it was just kicking ass in there. I thought that was super cool.

SPEAKER_01 21:56

That's actually my favorite part about Zoe is how prepared she made the town when like. Like it's go time, those alarms going off, the entire town, which clearly are indebted her, just like Carrie is, all engaged. And I really like that she had been building this for years. It just shows how manhunters are are excellent tacticians. And the water tower trick that used the same ability that the guns we saw in the last episode were using. I was like, oh my god, that's a great move because it shuts off the green plow uh green lantern power because of the lighting thing. So we see how when he does hit atrocity, or sorry, Anton, uh he steps out of the smoke to be able to do it because he couldn't do it from inside the smoke. And so there's just like little things like that. I'm like, that is really well done. And you know, that's I think that's something to reiterate here is I really enjoyed this episode as much as I'm nitpicking everything, that's because I'm supposed to, but I really did enjoy this episode, and I'm way more excited for the next episode than I probably should be, just because now we're going to 2026. We got Guy Garner, we're gonna answer some of these questions we got going on, you know, in Tom King, I trust. So let's see how that goes.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

Yeah, definitely. I'm not I'm on the opposite end, I'm in the hot seat. I probably shouldn't say this, but I I the more I think about this episode, the more I watched it, the more I do not like this episode. I I I think it was all you know, it was spectacle, but it was chaotic. And I think without explanation to me, sometimes I was like, why are they doing this? I didn't even I it took me a while. It took me talking to my wife and then a second watch to really even understand like why was the city getting blown up? And it was really just I was like, oh, it was purely just to drain his ring. And I was like, okay, that makes sense. But I was like, man, she just got all these people to trust her over decades and then just sacrifice them. I was like, man, that's brutal. So yeah, I don't know. It it felt like uh, you know, okay, she's a mancer. I get that, I get that. I still feel like there's too much emotion in this episode.

SPEAKER_01 23:47

Fair enough, fair enough.

SPEAKER_00 23:47

But then we get to the fight, and I love the fight. I think it's it was so well earned, so well choreographed. Of course, John is gonna be pissed. Of course, I think it was perfectly timed to Hal always leaving his phone or slash ring on 5% battery, just waiting the last second to charge it. And a boomer ring holder. That's true. Yeah, yeah, that's a good point. Um, but yeah, doesn't get through the oath, and John starts knocking him out, totally kicks his ass, but Hal keeps standing back up because of that will completely outmatch, but it it's it was awesome. I think it was a great, fantastic fight. And at the last moment he hears that laser, I guess he sees the light coming in and has enough energy to shield both of them, and it blows up the side of the motel.

SPEAKER_01 24:36

That's the key.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't how could he shield himself only, though?

SPEAKER_01 24:42

True. There, I I would say that there's probably a way for him to do that, but I thought the way that he naturally did that shows some of that, again, me hoping that there's this like underlying Hal that's just the good guy. That's like I have to protect everybody in this room. So I'm kind of just talking after that.

SPEAKER_00 24:57

And then this is actually the moment I don't think he hates John though. Like, that's the thing. Like, I think he's afraid of him replacing him, but I don't think he hates him.

SPEAKER_01 25:05

No, I don't think so. He's also seeing he's also kind of living with the idea that of what Sinestra put in his mind of like, you know, really amplifying that idea that he's replacing you. So there's also kind of that lingering, I think. Um, and then knowing that he himself has kind of knocked out, he was the person that put Sinestra away. So that mentor leader kind of relationship is a little fragile for Hal at this moment.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

But this is actually the thing that was called out by the writers of saying that Hal's an addict and that he's he's addicted to the power of the ring. And I see that, but also I just see that like it's not necessity of I must have this ring, but it's also like it's necessity of I must save the day. I don't trust John to do it right yet. Like, I think there's something where he's like, I have to take out this manhunter, it's too dangerous. I have to protect these people. And I think that's what he's addicted to in this moment. I don't necessarily think it's because I have to have the power. Now, in the grand scheme of things, he doesn't want to give it up to John, of course, but but I don't think it's like an addiction, like they're they're they're putting it out there.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

Yeah, the only pushback I have is the line where he says, Well, I'm gonna take the manhunter back, and all those little blue guys are gonna line up and kiss my ring. So I do think he wants the admiration too. Like he wants the guardians to be like, Oh, you're the best, you're the best Green Lantern. Especially as we know in the comics, everybody would call Sinestro the greatest Green Lantern. And I think maybe at this moment he feels like if he can get the Manhunter, he'll be called the Greatest Green Lantern.

SPEAKER_01 26:31

To counter you for the sake of countering you, I think he's saying that because he knows the Guardians did not trust the ring's process and has chosen the next Green Lantern with Jon Stewart. So he's saying, I'm gonna go have them kiss the ring, as in like, you guys thought Jon Stewart was the next best in line. Fuck you. I still have plenty of me and me. I still have plenty of, you know, how Jordan to present to the Green Lantern core. So I kind of took it as that. Like, like he wants to go tell them, like, I'm not here to be replaced, and when I am replaced, the ring picks it, it ain't gonna be you. I can see that. Yeah, I that doesn't just doesn't sound like a good guy to me.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

Like, I don't know what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 27:04

I agree with you on that. That sucks. Because it's how Jordan, damn it. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 27:08

I know he just doesn't. He's

Manhunter Emotion And Race Talk

SPEAKER_00 27:10

out. I he's to me, uh, he's in this episode has become crazy enough in a lot of ways, equally as bad of a villain as Zoe. And like he he's so letting fear drive him. He says, he says Green Lanterns don't kill, but then he still kills Anton. He still puts Will Macon up as bait, then Anton kills him. He leaves John in the car who gets exploded. Like, he he's not he's not done, he's let a lot of people die in this episode, and that's the weird part where I'm like, okay, I guess if they do really want to show him being a villain and and go into the parallax of it all, then there's a lot of room for that. But one thing that I saw someone point out, yeah. Yeah, but one thing I saw people point out, which I think is is interesting that we should touch on. Okay, how protects both of them from that giant laser. John runs out. Where's John going? Who knows? Zoe comes in with the gun, is about to shoot Hal. He's very smart. He says, Hey, bait, John with the single tier, kill Zoe, which another thing I didn't really like. I thought the Manhunter got taken out way too easy. But someone has pointed out that they made a point to show that the sentry mode of him scraping off the ring, he can make the 2006 version of him kind of watch or whatever. Do you think that it is a halogram that is actually like laying in the rubble?

SPEAKER_01 28:29

He would have needed to update, upload himself again back into the ring, and he hasn't done that since 2006 or whatever. So if he had time, I totally think he could have. I think that's possible. But I have another point I want to throw in there real quick, too. Jon Stewart has to use a sniper rifle because the Green Lantern ring can't kill people. So that's why he had to go get a real sniper rifle instead of using the ring that was on his finger at the time. I thought that was pretty interesting. Yeah, I mean the ring was on Hal's hand, right? No, at that point he took the ring for himself already. At that point, I might be wrong. Let me I can double check that. I can double check that.

SPEAKER_00 28:58

Yeah, because after you kill Zoe, right? He goes in and then he grabs the ring off John's hand. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:05

So okay.

SPEAKER_00 29:05

Yeah. But but it's cool because it also is like it goes back to all of what we've seen with John and him being a proficient sniper. And so it's like, okay. Yeah, yeah. So I mean, I think it's a nice full circle. Like, you can even kind of put it side by side next to the end of episode one. Like, he shoots Zoe in the head with one shot. We see at the end of episode one in the 2026 timeline, how sitting there with one shot in the head. So it's like, okay, okay, yeah, what yeah, I think I'm most, most excited to see how the 2026 is going to line up because okay, the most powerful scene. Well, maybe not. I don't know. I think it depends on the person. There's a powerful scene that you were pointing out to that would have been earlier in the season with John carrying the lantern into the bar with the ring and basically drops the bag with a lantern. No, with the heart, with a crystallized heart. And he says, This is for, you know, this is an example or something of your sins and consequences. And I thought that was a really powerful statement. And then he leaves the ring. What did you what did you think about that whole scene?

SPEAKER_01 30:15

As I've been referencing the entire time so far, I'll go ahead and reference it again. The writers say that that scene is about how or uh John seeing what the ring has done to Hal and not wanting that same life for himself. And I once again think that's incorrect. I think it's that John is tired of being told what his destiny is, and this is him saying, like, nah, I'm good. I'm not gonna be controlled by anybody else anymore, my parents or anything like that included, which again is important when the episode this is episode four, not five, and him striking out on his own, which means in 2026, when we see him pull up in the car, he's his own man now. He doesn't have to call his mom and dad to check in with him all the time. He doesn't have to listen to The Guardians anymore, and I think is becoming the Jon Stewart that has earned that ring by more means than just physicality. What was your take when you saw that scene?

SPEAKER_00 30:59

Yeah, I I mean it was my favorite scene, I think, in this episode, because it felt like the most earned. I liked a lot of John in this episode. I didn't really like a lot of the other characters in this episode. I think everything he did made sense for what he's been going through. And yeah, I mean, he saw how corrupted Hal has become. He saw how the Guardians have manipulated and created these entities that you like you were saying, like they are so heartless, they will sleep it and like win over anybody by any means, protect themselves, and then sacrifice anybody for themselves. And that was a direct thing that the guardians then put into the manhunter. So he sees like from various angles, like the man, the the guardians

Anton’s Dead End And Action Highlights

SPEAKER_00 31:45

just are terrible and they they don't help even their own. And so I thought it was the first like honest thing, and then the greatest will. I mean, it was someone can made the comparison to Lord of the Rings. It's when Frodo finally he's been denying the power of the ring the whole time, and it's hard for him, but he still throws the ring in at the end, and he's so close to not doing it. And I think that's the thing with John. It's like if he didn't see how shitty everything turned out, he would have said, like, yeah, absolutely, I'll take the ring. Like, yeah, I said the oath, but I think he just saw how much it tore everybody down. And when you when you see so many people who are after something, and none of their lives you want to emulate, or you you don't you look at their lives and you're like, I don't want to live that way. It's not something you I think if you're if you're strong enough, you'll realize like I don't want that life. I I can do my own thing and wait. There's another way to live. And I think that's the strongest and and the coolest thing in this whole episode.

SPEAKER_01 32:45

Yeah, it it really just shows. I mean, like you said, John's the the highlight of this episode for sure, and I agree with you. And it just shows how strong his will is, you know, beyond any kind of circumstances that have surrounded him. And I think like I like I said before, like I think now that ring would choose him, you know, and I think that part is important going forward. We also know that hey, the ring's free now, that it goes to Guy. Like we know that guy's next how he gets it after this. Um I want to bring back something real quick I forgot to mention earlier. When when John's being repaired by Zoe's machine, he's missing a chunk in his arm, and she mentions it takes a piece of you. You think that's gonna it has to come up in the future, right?

SPEAKER_00 33:22

Like cloning thing. Ooh, yeah. I so there's another theory, which then that circles back to Noah, right? They they've mentioned Carrie, Sheriff Carrie's son, Noah, a few times he's popped up. One of the most interesting conversations is she says, pulls him when the whole town is armying themselves and getting ready for you know how to come and to defend Zoe. She pulls Noah aside and says, Hey, remember our conversation. Remember what I told told you? Like, some people are gonna die, but like you never forget, but they don't say what it is. And I think it's very interesting because the we're still trying to figure out who shoots how Jordan in 2026. Noah is still around in 2026. When John pulls up to the football field, he says, How's Noah doing? And she goes, Oh, he's you know, a quarterback, he's all state. So maybe he is a manhunter. Maybe they maybe Zoe, before dying, found a way, actually, I guess before Noah was born, to take some part of a manhunter, make it even more biological, and impregnate, I guess, Carrie, and so he could be a new version of a manhunter. I don't know. What are your thoughts on that theory that's going on?

SPEAKER_01 34:37

That kind of goes back to that other theory that like everybody who's manhunters, which we know now is not the case because we've had other hearts come out, but there is a thing where manhunters create like cults and stuff like that, like they create followings, and so yeah, that could kind of lead to that. Like, what if he is? It would, you know, obviously explain why he's so good at when you get mixed state and stuff. And the fact that he's at the football stadium, of course, there's that too. So I think you have some a really good point there. I think that could be the case.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

Yeah, yeah. I I I think it would make sense. I don't know. I I wonder if I would feel cheapened by the fact, but then again, it's legacy, right? It's it's someone else now passing the torch for a mission. So maybe that does make sense. I mean, you know, it's the whole idea of the show when it started was how does he pass on the torch to John or not? We see that you know, he begrudgingly he won't do it, he he just won't do it. And John even feels bad about the fact that he has to take it away from him, which I would have felt bad too. I think that's why for me John's the most sympathetic in this situation,

Hal Vs John And The Sniper Shot

SPEAKER_00 35:40

but also like Carrie knew what she was doing, you know, the sins usually it's says they call the sins of the father, but it really it's the sins of the grandmother slash mother here that would be passing on to the son. So yeah, I guess I could see that working. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

Well, I mean, I'm like there's we have so many questions that need to be answered, and one of my favorite things, especially with the threads community, make sure you guys join everybody on threads, is the theorycrafting that comes out of a show like this. We got it with you know, season one X-Men 97 was that way. We get that with Daredevil often. WandaVision was the king of it. But this is one of those shows too where it's so many, so many theories going out. It's inevitable that we'll be disappointed because our theories are some of the best storytelling possible. It's all fanfic stuff. And they have to tell a story within a budget that makes sense to mainstream audiences, so of course not everything's gonna be true. Anton's not a you know, red uh lantern, thank god. But I I do think like some of these theories will come to fruition. And I think one of the things I think we should end off with is what is the wildest theory? Like you can make one up. What is the wildest theory you've got that you want to see happen in the show?

SPEAKER_00 36:43

I mean, I think I want John to get the ring, but I I think now we see a clear example of how he can do it. I I I said this, I don't know, probably like a week ago, maybe a couple weeks ago on stream, but I said that John is going to deny an order. And this part is probably wrong now, but I said John's going to deny an order, and because of that, the the ring will now go from Hal and it'll pass over to John and it will go to Guy. And then Guy, as we see, he'll get called back into town. We see is the trailer for episode is it six? Is yeah, I think it's episode six that's out now. He makes like a Batman light. I think he's gonna come in town. I think John's gonna get beat up. I think Hal, sorry, I think Guy might get injured somehow by the end of this season, and then the ring will go to John. So I don't know. I I could see that I think we're gonna have two rings eventually.

SPEAKER_01 37:36

I know that they're pretty adamant about one ring only per earth, but I think we have to have two rings. We can't have just the one that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00 37:42

Yeah, no, I I agree. I I I would like two as well, but I I think I don't know. I I don't know. I I don't know if they're gonna introduce that so soon. Maybe.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:51

Yeah, I don't know how you I'm trying to think of like the comics and how that would work, but there was this dance for a long time in the 80s of there really just being one ring, and it was between Hal, Guy, and John. There there was just one that was constantly dancing between them, and then eventually John is able to kind of like manifest his own will so he can get his own get his own ring. But may maybe I just don't know how I don't know how they'll do it in this show. Yeah, what is your wildest theory?

SPEAKER_01 38:19

So many different places that it's really hard to pinpoint where they're going from. Like a lot of this has just been Green Length and Rebirth, but also we're like, well, maybe it's early 90s parallax, or like, oh, maybe it's you know, like you're saying with the the the three ring, the three people sharing one ring. Yeah, so it could be anywhere. My wildest theory is that Hal ends up settling down in Rushville and is eventually married to Carrie or lives with Carrie and raises Noah. Noah goes off to school, but because of everything that happens with Macon and Azoe and like that, decides to change his name. So he's raised by Hal Jordan. He decides to change his name off of a character or whatever that he likes, and he goes by Kyle Rayner and he goes off to art school and you know becomes the Kyle Rayner that we know and love and is raised by Hal Jordan, has Hal Jordan morals. That's what I want. I would hate that.

SPEAKER_00 39:09

I would absolutely

John Leaves The Ring Behind

SPEAKER_00 39:11

hate that. That would, I mean, uh, yeah, it could happen, and I I, you know, I would be happy to have Kyle Rayner, but he would not be the same Kyle Rayner from the comics at all.

SPEAKER_01 39:22

That would be well that's the thing, is like there's so much like lineage in this season or this series, like everything's so lineage-based, everything's about like the kids becoming with that with so I'm like, what's the wildest thing? Sure, make make Kyle Rayner part of this lineage thing that they keep doing. So yeah, that's why I'm like, no, what the hell?

SPEAKER_00 39:40

I hope the wildest thing they do is just just make Hal parallax, and that way we can get through his villain arc, and then we can start his rebirth arc. That I hope that's the wildest thing.

SPEAKER_01 39:51

It's like the number one requested fan theory online is that everybody's wanting begging that that's the case, and I don't know if it is because man, that is so alienating, but these guys did work on the Watchmen series, and at the end of the Watchman series, it was that wild of an ending. So I can see them going that way because they did that thing before.

SPEAKER_00 40:11

Yeah, and and if Kyle Chandler is on board for 10 years, there's there's that's so much time for him to arc back to a how that we all love and that we're all like, this was the how we missed. Like, this was how from 2006. So I think there's still so much, you know, there's a ton of time where they can kind of write that ship and then explain why you know Guy gets a ring and how gets his ring back, and John has his own ring, you know. And I I think that they could do that. But I I just we're like just give me the full villain arc for Hal ready so that we can start moving into a place where I just like love him again.

SPEAKER_01 40:48

We can start liking him. Yeah, that would be nice. I I that that being said though, just you know, I I actually do like this version of Hal. I just don't like I don't like that he keeps following it falling into this pattern of becoming a bad guy when it's like I do like the gruff one,

Wild Theories And Next Week Tease

SPEAKER_01 41:05

I like the 30 years made you tired, but you know, he's still trying to help people. Like, it's just a shame that we're not getting a good balance in this. And you know, I like the I love the series and I like this episode. It's just that it's like I really wish Hal could walk away from this thing unscathed. Currently, I don't see a way for that to happen. They've promised it that there would be a good reason for everything that that's happening to happen. I trust you guys, but it that trust is being pressed pretty hard right then right now.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

Yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_01 41:29

Yeah, I think, yeah, I'm so excited to see his backstory.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

Yeah, I'm just so excited to see his backstory. I I don't think it's I don't think there's anything they can show me that can make up for it, but it would be nice to understand Hal a little bit more in 2016. That'd be good.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

All right, well, let's call it there because we're already at 45 minutes and I gotta edit this thing down for for uh Aaron as well. But you know, make sure you guys subscribe and follow Phantom Portals on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. Drop a review for Aaron and Brasher, two great guys, love the show and love where it's been going lately. Just top-notch work from those two. So, and yeah, and we hope everything I hope we know he'll be back next week.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

Aaron's excited to come. Thank you guys so much for uh letting us join in this week. Aaron and Brash are incredible, they do a hell of a show, so yeah, thank you so much. While we just kind of film them, fill in for them for a little bit. But man, yeah, I can't wait to hear their thoughts on this episode. All right, everybody. We'll see you later. Bye.