Lanterns Episode 4 Breakdown | Can We Actually Trust John Stewart?

Can We Trust John

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Here we are for another episode of Lantern's brash. Can we trust John? He's a little bit dishonest. He's a dishonest man. I can.

SPEAKER_02 0:10

I like I I honestly think this is my favorite episode of John.

SPEAKER_00 0:18

I think this is my favorite episode of Lantern so far, but I think this reveals a lot about John that I might not like about John. I know that he's a very careful man for sure. That is absolutely in the bag, part of his character, we know that. But it it plays it to the point where he's so careful that he just doesn't reveal anything that he's thinking. To the like, you know how some people, when they're thinking about something or they've got a decision to make, they're very much external processes. Like they'll they'll talk to you about all the things they're thinking and they'll talk to you about the different options they're considering. That's not John. No, no, no. John is an internal muller. He likes to think of it all, make sure it's precise, make sure it's definitely all lining up before he reveals anything. Obviously, we're talking about the Zoe reveal in Lanterns episode four, where he can seal it from Hal Jordan, which is not what you're supposed to do when you're forming a partnership. You're supposed to be honest, Brash. Honest. They're even sealing the deal with a ring. It's not good marriage quality.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

I I I have I have points that I'll bring up as we go as to why John never lied.

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Yeah, and you know what? I don't think Hal is innocent either, but we will get to that in this episode of the Phantom Portals podcast.

Welcome And Episode Four Setup

SPEAKER_00 1:44

Welcome to the Phantom Portals Podcast, everybody, the show that proves that the biggest pop culture movies have something to teach you. I'm Aaron, a teacher and a film fan, joined by Brash. How are you going today, Brash?

SPEAKER_02 1:53

I'm doing very well, just sort of getting over the flu, but I'm good to go.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

Yeah, very happy that you're here podcasting with us through the evil blight of sickness anyway. But we are here today to look at episode four of Lanterns, which is called The Weenie. When I saw it was called The Weenie, I was like, please don't do something silly when you've set this awesome dark tone, but it actually worked out pretty well. We were just talking before about Hal and John and their relationship, and I feel like there's probably some more bust-ups to occur in this series, but episode four definitely gave us the first of their betrayals slash bust-ups. Everybody's trauma was on show, and Hal certainly showed us how he deals with conflict and people lying to him. So, well, quotes, lying to him. You mentioned before how John technically didn't lie. Do you want to elaborate?

SPEAKER_02 2:45

Yeah. So at all points did John I say he didn't, he didn't lie, but he never he never outwardly lied. So when he was talking to the guardian and the guardian was saying, hey, you have to go kill your speaker thing, did John ever say, Yep, cool, I'm gonna do it? No, he didn't. No. And then when his mum, when he when he spoke to his mum and his mum was like, Oh hey, they want me, I don't think they're gonna make me a guardian because they want me to just do this, blah blah blah, and his mum was like, go do it. Did he say yep?

SPEAKER_01 3:20

No, he said, I know what I have to do. Or something along those lines.

SPEAKER_02 3:24

And then at no point did Hal ever ask John, hey, do you know who the manhunter is? For him, it was just a gut feeling, which I think Hal has been trying to teach him, hey, you have to go with your gut to be a Green Lantern Well, to be the Greenland sweat of Green Lantern he is.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

And it's only at the end when he sarcastically congratulates him for using his gut, doesn't he? Oh well there it is, Junior, you're finally using it.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

He gets caught in his lie, and the first time he actually says something that implicates his lie, which is when Hal tells him to ring up and say that Macon is the is the manhunter, and he rings up Anton and says, Hey, meet meet us at the thingo. The cafe. Well no, see, but even then, no, he never he doesn't he doesn't clear he doesn't say nothing.

SPEAKER_00 4:25

He didn't lie then either.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

Yeah, so the whole time he never at no time through that whole thing did he actually lie.

SPEAKER_00 4:33

I guess the term honest John can still be used in this episode.

SPEAKER_02 4:37

Because no one no one ever asked him directly.

SPEAKER_00 4:40

Well, it's it goes back to that old adage about lying. Is it is it lying if you omit the truth or if you never say something that's on your mind? That's that's the question here. So I think Hal has a little bit of baggage in that regard, though, because as we heard at the start of this episode

Lying Versus Omitting The Truth

SPEAKER_00 4:55

when he's talking about Sinestro, he he asks, Is that how you got me? You know, you used the relationship we had against me. And Sinestro said, I was never anything other than myself. And I feel like that means that Hal holds people to a standard that he himself holds, but really can't expect others to hold as well. Like everybody deals with things in different ways. Sinestro says he was always ambitious, but you wanted to see me as something that I wasn't. And that was that's on you, bro. And I think he kind of did the same with John. He's like, I want to see you as a partner, and John's a little bit more secretive, a little bit more measured, a little bit more patient than Hal is, and because he didn't reveal things straight away or say that this is what my gut is feeling, like Hal does, he kind of saw that as a little bit of a conflict or another betrayal, or yeah, well, and this just shows to me, this just shows for me that like how I was how the first few episodes where it seems like, oh no, they're using John because John is a person who will just say yes to anyone. The puppet or the controllable one, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:55

I now well from this episode now know that that's not the case the whole time. He and and like and that's why I was a bit worried because of them making him into a puppet, because he didn't John's never been a puppet in any and and he like he's a smart guy, he's probably one of the smartest Green Lanterns there is. Very smart, very smart guy. I'm like, surely he is able to think for himself, and that's how I think he gets around every like gets around everything by just basically being quiet. Like he never he never omits anything, uh omits anything to anyone ever.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Absolutely, and I think he's patient in that way, but it goes back to something that a lot of people say all the time where it's like, why do you have two ears? And it's because you're supposed to do double the listening than you are to talking. And I think he he plays that into certainty because he will listen to everybody's point of views and then formulate his own point of view based on that, and then move his actions forward in regards to what he thinks he's going to do. But I I also agree because I think that through this series, John has been presented as a manipulatable puppet, but through his actions, we've seen that he kind of knows what everybody is trying to do with him. Even some, like even his background with his parents and things like that. You you do get the vibe that he knows his parents expect this particular thing of him, but he will do it in a way that is subservient to his morals and his characters. Like he he didn't expect the Guardians, for example, to be asking him to take the ring directly off Hal. They thought it would be a succession and they thought it would be obviously something that was within the system, which he could then stand behind. He could say, you know, this is the process that's happened, I'm better for the job. And with that technicality, with his military background, he was obviously like, yeah, okay, I can deal with that. But with this underhanded betrayal stuff, where it's like, go and take it from him, that's a little bit deceitful for John. So he hot he falters on that moment and he eventually does after he constructs that awesome frickin' digger, that drill, he gives a ring back to the city.

SPEAKER_02 8:03

Which finally shows off his architectural creative like nature, which is something.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

I love that thing that he said as he was at the door. He goes, You drew this just now? And he goes, I'm creative. Yeah, yeah. That was so good.

SPEAKER_02 8:14

Well, because again, because that's the thing, because uh the guy was saying, Oh, Hal's been giving us updates, and I tend to think that the guy's lying. I don't think fucking Hal's talked to him at all about him at all, especially it's only been three months. And and Hal knew all along, like in his gut, he knew all along that the guy who chose John to replace him.

SPEAKER_00 8:35

Yeah, 100%. He says that to Sinestra at the start as well.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

And and yeah, how follows his gut. And this is where I think what we what I said in previous our previous one when it was all about John's backstory, about how he is very patient, but uh his patience can sometimes lead to him missing his shot. Yes. And I think this is what's happened is he's been patiently watching, patiently listening, and to all sorts of guys, he's been listening to how listening to his parents, he's been listening to everyone to try and formulate some sort of plan. Hal being the kind of guy he is, is sort of like he's he's uh the probably the only person who could probably counter John's sharpness and his patience because he's so off the cuff.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Yeah, but it's also worked for him, and I think John has seen Hal's attitude and the way that he is not work for people so often

Hal’s Sinestro Baggage Surfaces

SPEAKER_00 9:45

that that's that's obviously how he's become, he's become patient and measured and careful. But for Hal, I've done a video about this before, but his arrogance kind of works for him, and therefore it's become this self-fulfilling prophecy about how he's turned out as a human. He's he appears arrogant, but it's like when he's talking to Hector Hammond in the office, and John asks him, What if you were wrong in terms of him talking down Hector and getting the satellite turned away from his childhood home? And he just literally turns around no fuss and says, I'm never wrong. And you know, I do think that there was a seed of doubt in Hal's mind, but he has verbally deconstructed probably three or four people on screen that we've seen so far in this lantern show in the space of like and in such unconventional ways, too.

SPEAKER_02 10:28

So like in not not linear sort of sort of interrogation methods, yeah, in just in just like almost in a way like simple display and just spouting so much random shit almost in a way that it just confuses the person and throws them off, and he's able to catch that glimpse. But then again, Hal's been doing this for 30 years.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:55

So and he has learned from Abinsur, or not Abensor, sorry, from Sinestro, who was who learnt everything from Abinsor, and we all well from people. Well, Sinestro is a verbal word. Very really good Green Lantern. Sinestro until he his until his ambition. His turn to the evil. He was a very good Green Lantern and was called one of the best Green Lantons. Yep. Um, so he has learned from the best. And what I mean when um I said that Hal his sort of like his counter accounted to John, we've already seen it once with his sniper shot being ruined by Hal. Because Hal just went, got learned something, went, uh, and just fucked off and just did it. Same thing with John. John was listening and everything like that, and he was trying to formulate a plan in his head long term, and Hal's just like and how and he didn't account for how to just be like you lied, jumped out of the car, crashed into a pot. Yeah, like he didn't he didn't account for that. That wasn't John never thought of that possibility of him just again that left skin thing. So random and so just off the cuff that he'd just do the same thing what he did earlier when John really should know by now just how how explosive how can be.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

Yeah. And kind of reactive too, but it's turned out that he's always had kind of had a plan. But I at the end of that episode when that car crashed into the pole, it was obviously a shock for me and for everybody. But I'm I'll be interested to see whether he has a justified reason for doing that or whether it was just like a an F you, you lied to me, my feelings are hurt, goodbye, and crashed into the car. And you know what? I think it might be.

SPEAKER_02 12:41

I think it's because I I think it's because he doesn't trust John to be able to go through with what is needed, which is possibly needing to kill Zoe.

SPEAKER_00 12:52

Yep, okay. So what do you think his purpose was with that crash? I don't think he was trying to kill John.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

No, he is just slowing him down.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Yeah, okay, okay, right. So he's gonna go see it makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

He's gonna go to Anton and tell them that Zoe, he Zoe is the manhunter. I reckon him and Anton uh and Hal are gonna have a bit of a conversation. You don't see it in the trail, like the preview, but I reckon there's gonna be a little bit of a conversation, five, ten minute maybe conversation with between Hal and Anton. Um and then I think some there's gonna be some sort of plan.

SPEAKER_00 13:29

And John's delayed, obviously.

SPEAKER_02 13:31

John's delayed, but we also see Zoe at that crash.

SPEAKER_00 13:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 13:34

Now I don't know, yes. So I don't know if Zoe gets there before or after, but she's there as soon as the car explodes.

SPEAKER_00 13:42

Okay. We could also add to that as well. We've seen in trailers as well how Jordan walking into a cafe and then surrounding himself with a green bubble and then being shot at by lots of people. So we could assume that may be the alone meeting he's planned to have with Anton and his people.

SPEAKER_02 13:58

That will be it, and because they are they're assuming they're see John uh to see John, and instead they see how. And they don't know if they can trust how Anton's group.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

Which is why all those bullets would have worked, but hey,

John’s Patience And Hidden Agency

SPEAKER_00 14:10

he's got the Green Lantern ring and he made some awesome shields. But yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:13

But um uh Zoe, I don't know if Zoe talks to John before he gets out of the car, or if he she gets the car and sees there's no one in it, and John's already gotten out. But then I believe once Zoe sees the car, that's when she raises a high alert. And people uh I've seen some people thinking I've seen a scene where a dude rocks up to the Macon ranch and all the guns point in and he gets out of the car. Um they're like, oh, that might be a townsfolk coming to warn Macon. I don't think that's the case. They have little satellite satellite probes and shit flying around and all that kind of stuff. They have access to surveillance and alien scanners, all kinds of stuff. Because at some point we do see that the gate, the main gate of the Macon ranch is destroyed. Yeah, I think that's one of the aliens, and he suicide bombs at the gate. Yeah. That's that's my prediction.

SPEAKER_00 15:04

My prediction is that I think John is going to fight to I'll say save Zoe and therefore save the town because she's doing a lot of good in that town, and Hal will be rigid in his ways to destroy the Manhunter, and those two will have that internal conflict, but then you also see the town kind of turning against the lanterns because they want to protect the manhunter in Zoe as well. So John will be caught in the middle where he kind of wants Hal to survive, but he also wants the town to be okay, and he cares a lot about Zoe. So I think that's going to be interesting to watch in the future too. But in terms of like John and in terms of Zoe, I just want to point out that yes, last episode, or maybe two episodes ago, I am quoted on this podcast of saying Zoe hasn't done nothing. I'm like, she's a useless character. And then two episodes later, and I'll also say that you said, What do you mean? She's done everything, and you kind of predicted it and called it. So yeah, that's my hand on heart. Yep, I got it wrong with this one. But that's what good shows do.

SPEAKER_02 16:01

So yes, that's it. Like I I sort of sus I suspected Zoe as soon as I saw her at the cafe.

SPEAKER_00 16:08

As soon as she was listening in on the conversation in episode one. It was looking, look, hindsight's 2020.

SPEAKER_02 16:15

It was that was that was convenient, but then her being at the at the exact dino where John just rocks up to. I'm like, nah, nah, man.

SPEAKER_00 16:26

See, I had small channel mind on that one. I was just like, there's probably only one diner. They're all going there.

SPEAKER_02 16:31

Yeah, probably, but yeah, why was she there? But and yeah, I as soon as I saw that, I was like, nah, there's more to Zoe than this. I I did say like there were people online think possibly thinking that Zoe might have been Sinestro's daughter, but I was like, nah, that can't be a because if that was the case, um Sinestra would already be a Yellow Lantern. Yeah, and also the whole Yellow Lantern thing would have already happened and it hasn't.

SPEAKER_00 16:53

So um Sinestro's getting his information from somewhere too, so I see where people might have thought that.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

Yeah, that's what they thought. But yeah, I don't believe that's the case. I reckon I reckon I reckon I reckon some of the guardians might be. See, I reckon Liana. So there is in the comics a guardian who called Liana who is an antagonist to uh Rainer, Greenmark?

SPEAKER_00 17:23

Yep, Kyle Rayner, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:25

Rainer. She uh after Rainer. So she's a rogue guardian. Well, no, well, she's just a bit more of a uh she she's not she's not a small blue um one, she's actually human-sized. Yep. She's a bit different to the rest of the Guardians, but sh I I I haven't really read the comics on this one, so I'm not entirely sure. But I know she is sometimes butts heads with Karena and like Earth Green Lanterns in general, so there is a possibility that Liana actually is working outside of what the rest of the Guardians are talking about.

SPEAKER_00 18:01

Yeah. See, that would make sense for the future continuity of the lanterns in the wider scope of the DC U. Because if you're I don't trust I don't trust her at all.

SPEAKER_02 18:10

Like she is such, she has such villain vibes.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Yeah, and if we if we are to think about Green Lanterns being in any future projects and we know that they're governed by the Guardians, the audience has to kind of believe that the Guardians have the best interests of the universe at heart, otherwise, the Green Lantern Corpse as a whole is essentially a corrupted force. So she has to be working outside.

SPEAKER_02 18:32

If there's one or two one with like one Guardian with maybe a couple lackeys like that dude that but even then, that dude that was that gave

Hal’s Methods And The Car Crash

SPEAKER_02 18:40

him the ring to tr make the watch and everything like that, yeah, yeah, yeah. That could have been Liana as well, because no, she can just zap in and zap out of places.

SPEAKER_00 18:49

Yeah, and change her form as well and shape. So one thing I will say about her interactions in this episode as well is as soon as John questioned an order that she gave him, she used manipula, yeah, manipulative tactics straight away. She basically used the one thing or the many things she knows would target John. She mentioned his father. I didn't know the same weakness ran in you as your father. Like that was his generational trauma and his dad's massive, massive fear. And she just flipped it and used it straight away against him. And, you know, it appeared to me on a first glance that, yeah, that's affected John because John said, Yeah, I'll do what I have to do. But after reflecting and looking at how John's character is developing, I think he knows that that's the kind of manipulation that they're going through. And to double on that point, Hal in the car also said to John, you know, don't trust these lantern or these guardians on face value. They're not as high and mighty as you think they are, because look at what they're doing to me, as in Hal Jordan. They're they're undercutting his position as the Green Lantern and replacing him deceptively with you. So you can't really say that this person's going to be the greatest and most honest figure in the galaxy when they're using those kind of tactics to manoeuvre their troops, we can say in quote Marx.

SPEAKER_02 20:08

And that's I said, like John is a very smart man.

unknown 20:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 20:11

So I I I think he sees that. And I think within the training that's he had with his parents, when when I think at first he was pretty obedient and straight narrow, but I think as soon as his mum lied to him about the birds, I think it sort of clicked in him. And I think that's why, like, when he asked her to be the one that to shoot the apple off and everything like that. I think it was that point in time where he probably was like, he's like, yeah, I think that's sort of when he gained his own autonomy, but still played the part.

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Yeah, or it planted the seed of doubt that then sprouted the tree of John having his own thoughts and feelings about things. And you know what? I I kind of saw a glimpse of that as well with his interaction with Zoe when they were both in the hotel room, because she's asking him obviously to to leave town so that he's safe, and then he's refusing. And then there was that line that went something along the way of you know everyone's lying to you, or he's doing what everyone's doing to me, I'm lying to everybody because they're all lying to me. And that's the moment where I said, Okay, well, John's aware of the people that are talking to him and the motivations they might have behind what they're saying. So, yeah, he's he's definitely analyzing more under the surface than what we're we're led to believe upon the surface.

SPEAKER_02 21:29

Oh, 100%. And and that's where and that's where I think the N scene of Hal crushed the car is extremely important because I think John is trying to figure out out of all the people he's lying to who he can trust. And I think he just started he's now leaning more side to more to the side he can trust how. Yeah. And that's why it was like that's why I told him like they told me to say the oath and I would claim the ring, but I didn't and I didn't do it. I was gonna give I was gonna give it back to you. And Hal then also is like, okay, and it starts to trust John. But then as soon as the Zoe thing came up, that sort of trust was immediately sort of like severed again because Well, Hal's got some past trauma in that space. Yeah, but not so much, I wouldn't say so much how severed Hal saw his conflict, saw the conflict in John. How saw that conflict in John of that about about making the right decision need or making decisions needed.

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:35

In that space, and was like, he's not gonna be able to handle this and crashed the car.

SPEAKER_00 22:41

I don't know if it could be that, but I also don't know, and it's probably just really good writing for the character, but I don't know if Hal is emotionally as on top of it as we think in terms of why he's reacting the way that he's reacting or the plan that he's enacting. I think yes, he sees John as a bit of a threat now, but I also think there was that little bit of, you know, fuck you, in terms of crashing the car, and it was out of left field, it was unexpected. But as we've sort of talked about before, he has been betrayed by a mentor before because he didn't see a situation as he hoped and intended it to go, and that might have been happening here as well. He's lost both of his parents. He said in the tunnel, you know, we've got to keep people at arm's distance away or hand's distance away because connection just complicates things. And then the next beat, you see him reaching out his hand to help Sheriff Kerry through that moment where she's considering how she's gonna tell Noah that her that his grandmother just passed. So he wants that connection, but he keeps getting messed around every time he's reaching out olive branches for people, and that that goes with the point where as soon as he was unsure about something, he went to see Sinestro. And Sinestro wasn't giving him what he wanted. Sinestro controlled that entire conversation. He didn't give Hal exactly what he needed, so then he'd leave. He kept Hal there, and whenever Hal was starting to walk away, he pulled on his heartstrings again. You

Predictions For Anton And The Cafe

SPEAKER_00 24:05

could see Hal just like turning around because he wanted that minute more to chat with this guy and to connect with him to make sure that you know we're on the same page again or to get that feeling that they had from the past. And I don't know. I've I I actually think that Hal is skewing more into that area of fear-based decision making as opposed to logical considered this will provide John with a lesson so he will be a great Green Lantern lesson. I think that's in the back of his mind. He really wants to do it, but I also think that the fear that has been placed within him and the history he has as the Green Lantern has sort of come to bite him. And I think that may traject into his parallax storyline later on in the seasons as we get maybe season two, season three of lanterns.

SPEAKER_02 24:55

See, I I I kind of think the opposite. Like in because in in the preview we saw like Hal's, you see, well I see where Hal's beat up, but I don't think he says it then, but he says it at some point because it's just uh voiceover. But Hal's saying, I hope you know what you're doing. Because I I I think Hal has a plan, this I had a plan the whole time. I think I think as soon as well I don't think he knew everything, but I think Hal is fully aware of the situation and what's happening around him and everyone else just thinks he's an idiot. But I reckon he or he's just doing random stupid shit. But I reckon Hal has always known what he's doing. Like I said, as I said, he's been doing this for 30 years, has been trained by some of the like one of the best freelancers there was. He fully knows what he's doing. Like even if he's like, yeah, now he's older and a bit more bitter, but that training, that 30 years of experience, just doesn't just doesn't go away. Like he fully knows everything that's happening, uh everything that's going on. Yes, there are a few little tricks, like the uh guns that look uh extremely similar to the manhunter guns from the comics, except this time they shoot smoke and darkness.

SPEAKER_00 26:19

Yeah. Um specifically designed to take down a green lantern.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

Yeah, so like some of the things are coming out, and I think that's what makes because I think we didn't see it. I because I mean he says Sinestro told him well he told tells them about the heart, how the heart's anything they can't change. We didn't see that conversation with that.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

No, that was an off off-screen conversation if it was had between.

SPEAKER_02 26:46

If Sinestro did tell him all the information about Manhunters, then they should know that the ultimate goal for manhunters is to pull people in and get gain their confidence, create a massive following and an area of need, and then eventually destabilize, crumble, and destroy a planet. That is a manhunter's end goal.

SPEAKER_01 27:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:17

Hal knows this.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

Do you think John's maybe a little bit naive about the manhunters thinking that Zoe's a good person and perhaps that that's why I think that's why that's why when John saw the conflict and the the fact that he couldn't admit that Zoe was the manhunter, how's like, damn. Yeah. He's like I I gave you a I'm even giving you another chance here.

SPEAKER_02 27:43

Yeah, I I gave you a chance, but he's like, but he he's he saw the conflict and was like, damn, I don't think John will make the right decision in it in this moment, and therefore crash the car so he could fly off and stop John or make give him some distance. Yeah. So Hal could do what was needed to be done before John could get there.

SPEAKER_00 28:07

Very good point. And I think that that moment was more powerful for me because I feel like we'd spent this entire episode with these two getting closer and closer. Like they had that banter sort of filled moment on top of the water tower at Rushville where they kind of had a joke, and then they shared about their parents in the tunnel when they were digging into Macon's ranch, and then you know, they they shared the conversation with Kerry as well, where he's just like, How much do you want me to tell her? And he's like, All of it, and he's like, Okay, then. So they're kind of starting to trust each other and they're starting to develop that relationship, and then they go through that moment when they're infiltrating the ranch, and he's just like, How much do you weigh? 185-ish. It's like great movie. Like they're really sort of back and forward with that, and that was really warm to see, and it really shows these two actors' chemistry with these parts as well, and also everything I've seen from these guys in the media kit that they've been doing, they just love each other so much, but they're just so opposite as well, unlike the characters, and that may be performed for the media, but I don't care. I loved seeing it, so I think that that's what made this crash into the telegraph poll a little bit more powerful for me, but also a little bit more for what the audience will be feeling is like, oh my gosh. But yeah, I I also liked how they it it all started to fall apart in the office of Hector Hammond there. And when Aaron Pierre was playing Jon Stewart as becoming more and more emotional in that point, to a point where we hadn't really seen him before, lose his temper in that manner, and obviously he's being like hurt and pushed in a very particular pressure point. And Hal sort of does keep his cool in that moment, but then uses that as information too to assess John's future behavior.

SPEAKER_02 29:51

Yep, because he saw like people he cares about, he will he will get emotional about it, and the fact that when Zoe died, he wasn't. Well, that's more evidence to the Zoe, yeah. He knew fully knew that like that explosion probably wouldn't kill the manhunter.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Yeah, but that's more evidence as well, as we were saying about the

Liana’s Manipulation And Guardian Doubts

SPEAKER_00 30:10

the Zoe conclusion and the conclusion Hal has drawn from this episode. You know, John won't pull the trigger on this because I've seen how he acts when his loved ones are threatened. That's that's how he goes. You know, he'll lose all composure and all calmness and he won't be able to control the situation. And that's probably the first time we've seen John try and brute force a solution. Like he was basically trying to out-muscle Hector Hammond with his voice, saying, you know, we're gonna we're gonna destroy you or or hurt you if you don't do as we say. And then that's when Hal comes in with a different tactic from left field. He basically disarms him with his wisdom, asking what colour Abin Sewer was. He's a pretty memorable shade. That's it. Yeah, and I think that that it was just the way that these characters were just developed through this episode from start to finish. From where we started to where we are now, they've gone through a complete like transition. And I think it's so awesome to see where these guys are gonna go in the next few episodes because we're kind of into the high octane part of the season where decisions are gonna be made, and then hopefully by the end, we see a warm reconciliation. But before we jump off, I want to I want to jump a little bit to the future where we saw the cut in from 2026 in episode one, and we obviously saw Hal Hal's death. And then my question to you, Brash, is how does this new information impact your predictions on what actually happened there? Because I know I saw John obviously shed a tear when he checked the the ring, and I'm thinking that maybe maybe that the that's the manhunter instead of it being Hal in Hal's form and him shedding a tear may indicate the fact that that's that's Zoe that has has passed instead of Hal. I I'm not sure. What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_02 31:59

Yeah, I'm I'm a bit of like two minds at the moment. Because we've heard the producer say that Guy Gardner has Hal's ring.

SPEAKER_01 32:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:10

But we also made the decision of how's that possible when we're in 2026. I should be a movie was 2025.

SPEAKER_00 32:16

And we also haven't seen Guy in this series yet.

SPEAKER_02 32:19

Not yet, no. But the thing is if Guy does have Hal's ring, that means Hal would have had to give up his ring beforehand.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

So Well, I think we talked about this before. He could have sacrificed it for a quieter life.

SPEAKER_02 32:37

Yeah, and that's why I'm still at two uh at two moments. And now this is a possibly a wanna say if if he had given up his ring and wanted a quiet life and wanted to settle down or do something else, would not be a grenade anymore. It makes sense that the how the ring went from Hal to Guy because Guy would be more manipulatable.

SPEAKER_00 33:06

Well, that if that was going to run.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

In the comics, Guy was technically the second choice, or the the two of two of the choices, Hal and Guy, just Hal was closer.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

Yeah, and Guy wasn't available, so that's when they recruited John.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

So then the ring the ring goes to because the ring also like and that's the thing, and the guys keep saying that oh John's gonna be next guy, uh the Green Lantern, John's gonna be next Green Latin. Oh, the parents are saying that John's gonna be next Green Latin. Realistically, they don't have a say at all. It's the ring that chooses.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

So unless they've manipulated the rings now to say, but uh realistically, the the ring goes to whoever's the ring wants it to go to. So if he had given up his ring and left it up the ring to the side and went, nah, I am retiring from Green Lantern's Green Lantern uh the ring blew off and found Guy, Guy now became a new Green Lantern. I think Guy as a character is actually probably the guy in the well, especially Liana is probably really happy that Guy was the one that got the ring because Guy is a person who can probably do a lot of the dirty work without you know questioning it in a way, I reckon.

SPEAKER_00 34:17

As much. He does seem a lot less intelligent and more appreciative of the fame of the role than the other two have. I think I've even seen, and I might have sent it to you as well, but Guy arrives on the scene and finds Jon Stewart in prison, and he's already got the ring at that point too. So we know that obviously happens after 2016 and before 2026, possibly in 2026.

SPEAKER_02 34:39

Yeah, I think I think well I think this is 2026 because John has the that same period as he did in the end. So I reckon he's gone to try and investigate why why Hal died.

SPEAKER_00 34:52

Yeah, well the thing with that is as well, I don't know if Hal could potentially settle down and have a quiet life in Rushville after the events we're probably about to see of him trying to destabilise Rushville with the Manhunter.

SPEAKER_02 35:07

Like I I don't and maybe he had it had the well no Reese, but I reckon this is a whole ploy to bring back John.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

The long con.

SPEAKER_02 35:17

Yeah. So I reckon this is a little ploy to bring back John to get to John because he's positioned in the same city he was when John rocked up in that first episode.

SPEAKER_00 35:27

Yeah, yeah. And you think if this ended cleanly and they were able to rid the town of Rushville of the Manhunter, I wouldn't.

SPEAKER_02 35:38

Yeah, I don't, and this is the thing, this is where I'm at two minds, because if this is the manhunter, then I don't think a bullet head to a bullet to the head would be what would kill.

SPEAKER_00 35:50

Well, remember they said the only distinguishing difference is the heart because it crystallizes upon death. That being said, as well, I do want to mention that Will Macon, when we saw his glorious figure, had a scar across the top of his his heart there as well, and it could just be a you know a fancy placement, but look, there's that that little element too. It could also be Will Macon. Maybe John is so intelligent that he's actually correct. Like he had a feeling that it was Zoe, but maybe it is Will, like we don't know.

SPEAKER_02 36:18

Well, I I still think of Zoe, because I I think Zoe had the tools to fix to fix Will, and I reckon he may have given or had like a because again, manhunters have the capability of creating things that aren't available on the planets that they occupy. So they she could have constructed him a whole brand new heart.

SPEAKER_00 36:39

Yeah, yeah, very true. And also he he went through cancer treatment, I think they said, wasn't it? Like he had cancer, and then she that's how it was sort of given away in the episode, really. A bit of a lot of people.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

Was it lung cancer?

SPEAKER_00 36:54

I'm not too sure. But yeah, Zoe revealed he doesn't I don't owe him, he owes me. Like I saved him.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

No, no, that was a big distinction because Makem was like that he he was saved by the he saved him. Zoe was the nurse, he saved me.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

Well, that's the perfect weasling into a powerful position, nestling up Cozy to the authority figure in place, and then literally having a.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

But then Zoe Zoe later makes the distinction. I saved him.

SPEAKER_00 37:22

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I definitely think that look, I'm 90% sure that Zoe is definitely the manhunter, but we'll have to see how that goes as well. My my predictions are also zero for one so far. So take that as you will, listeners and viewers of Fan Bottles podcast.

SPEAKER_02 37:39

I I I I have a I have a feeling that because they don't they don't they don't kill someone just for the fun of it or just to misdirect. Yeah. I I do probably believe that that is how

2026 Flash-Forward And Hal’s Fate

SPEAKER_02 37:55

Jordan dead.

SPEAKER_00 37:57

Yeah, unfortunately. And the reason why it's unfortunate because Kyle Chandler is so fucking good as Jordan.

SPEAKER_02 38:04

But the reason why a bullet killed him is because he didn't have the ring to defend himself. He was just a person and he died, and the only reason why he died was to I think bring John there.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 38:16

Either that as well, or it was somebody either taking the form of someone he knows, or it was somebody he knows and trusts that and that and that's where I'm at two months, because at one point, me in my head, being a really big Hal Jordan fan, I don't want Hal Jordan to die.

SPEAKER_01 38:31

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 38:32

On another note, he'll be what now in his 60s, almost 70s, probably.

SPEAKER_00 38:39

By 2026, he would be in his 60s. Because he got the ring in 86. Yeah. So he's had a 40-year career and he would have been, he was already a Tesla pilot when he got the ring. So he would have been in his 20s, so he would be in his 60s as he's sitting on that bleachers with the bullet in his head.

SPEAKER_02 38:53

And so I I I can understand them killing off Hal now because he is old and older. And I don't see him like I I don't see them doing geriatric Greenland. No, I don't think so. Because like even now, even now, John would be in his what 40s just about in 2026. Because he was in the 90s, he was 10. In 2016, he was just out of the army out of school, it would have been in his 20s.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

So he's in his 30s in 2026.

SPEAKER_02 39:31

I reckon maybe late late 30s then, it'd be in his late 30s.

SPEAKER_00 39:34

Yep. Which means he's older than Superman, Superman being in his early 30s, but still very much a career ahead of him. If we're looking at Hal Jordan's career, he's got 30 years ahead of him. Yeah. So but I also like the idea of Jon Stewart being the Green Lantern in future DC projects, and there's no reason why.

SPEAKER_02 39:51

I think that's already been established because I'm not sure. He's in Manna tomorrow. So I I do think that this this first season of Lanterns is Hal Jordan's last hurrah.

SPEAKER_00 40:04

Maybe he'll appear in flashbacks later on with the case. Yeah. I don't know. But yeah, they've got to use Kyle Chandler in some way because he's a very, very good Hal Jordan.

SPEAKER_02 40:14

The thing is, I I reckon he hangs up the ring after the events of the Yellowland.

SPEAKER_01 40:20

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 40:21

So then there might be in this in the second season, because see, this is where it's now like they've got how what well what other people wanted if they Well writing's begun on season two, so they're doing something. I was gonna say like if a lot of people wanted, because the show is called Lanterns, not just Green Lantern, it's lanterns. Yeah. So which brings in the possibility of other lanterns, not just the Green Lans.

SPEAKER_00 40:47

Keeps it broad and open.

SPEAKER_02 40:48

I think people wanted to see like yellow lanterns, they wanted to see red lanterns, possibility of seeing Macon as a black hand, yeah, and stuff like that. So but to be able to do that, they've got what four more episodes to go?

SPEAKER_00 41:02

Four to go. And I would say that's not very long to tell a story, but we've done four episodes so far, we've come so far.

SPEAKER_02 41:08

Oh, uh I don't think they could do a whole yellow Lanceon. No, you're right with that. Yeah. In four episodes. This will be a rush episode. Yeah, exactly. They're gonna close out Russ Rushville. Yeah. So there's gonna be a big battle in the next episode, and then I think the sixth episode will be the fallout, and then the seventh episode might be the conclusion, and then the eighth, there'll twist, but then the eighth episode will be the transition into the possibility of the yellow, like the emergence of uh Sinestro as a yellow lantern.

SPEAKER_00 41:47

Well, yeah, we also know that we we know that this has to leave John in a place where he can go off and be in Man of Tomorrow because this will ends essentially in 2026. Man of Tomorrow is set in 2027, so yeah, he does have to be in a space where he can move off and transition into that show. It could be that that Guy Gardner scene that we saw where he's going to break him out of prison is that transitional scene. Maybe the actions of this season, maybe that's the post-credit. The actions of this season put Jon Stewart in prison because Hal Jordan's been killed. Guy Gardner gets him out of prison and then he goes and visits Hal Jordan who's dead, and then Man of Tomorrow occurs.

SPEAKER_02 42:28

Well, yeah, so I I reckon in the last two episodes we'll get a continuation of 2016, and then we'll also get the continuation of 2026.

SPEAKER_01 42:38

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:39

So I reckon the continuation, uh so after the events of Rushville, I think is we'll get the Yellow Lanterns, the Yellow Lanterns, and the emergence of Sinestro as a Yellow Lantern. I I still believe that Anton is part of the Rant Red Lantern Corps.

SPEAKER_00 42:55

Or yeah, and that might not be revealed now or later, but it's just something they might have and hold.

SPEAKER_02 43:00

Yeah, foreshadow, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:02

Uh, because I can I don't think Hal is going to see this is this is where I think the the voiceover where Hal is like, I hope you know what you're doing, comes into it. Because I think Hal had a plan to basically stop everything. He wasn't gonna let Anton's group come in and kill Zoe. He wasn't going to like really kill Zoe, I don't think. I think he was gonna try to capture Zoe and maybe a prisoner like he did Sestro.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

Yeah, well he is a supremely beloved character, so they're gonna have to have his send-off, not be something like he he died as a peasant in the street like Batmint's family and parents, you know. Like if that was the end of Hal Jordan and he just died in the bleachers to a gunshot to the head, I don't think the fan base would be very happy with that. He kind of needs to have a hero's sacrifice, I would say. That that would be my prediction.

SPEAKER_02 43:54

Which we which we might see. So it might be a case of they grab they grab half. Hal, and maybe they're trying to get after John because they know something that we don't know yet. Or maybe they were trying to get the ring off of Hal and realize that Hal doesn't have the ring.

SPEAKER_00 44:12

And then I reckon instead of maybe John's crying because he sees Hal's death as a sacrifice that will benefit John in some way.

SPEAKER_02 44:27

Well that's the thing. I think I think that's what what will happen. So if we do see a scene of if we do see the scene of Hal, if it is Hal being killed, it will be him basically defying the people trying to get John to John by saying, it doesn't matter what you do to me. Junior's got it covered. Junior's got it, yeah. Like you may be able to you may kill me, but Junior's gonna Junior's got this.

SPEAKER_00 44:54

Well, yeah. And as he said, he'll do it better than Hal Jordan ever did. But yeah, well.

SPEAKER_02 44:58

We forgot. We forgot one of the probably biggest things of the season of the episode.

SPEAKER_01 45:02

What do we forget?

Manhunter Endgame And Tech Connections

SPEAKER_02 45:05

Macon is using the same technology as the Guardians are.

SPEAKER_01 45:12

What Guardians? What do you mean?

SPEAKER_02 45:14

So when John gets put into a hole to talk to the Guardian, it's the same thing they use in the slaughterhouse to get the cow in there.

SPEAKER_00 45:25

That's correct. Yeah, very true. So it's more dirt on the Guardian Trail.

SPEAKER_02 45:33

This also possibly means that Liana could also be the manhunter.

SPEAKER_00 45:41

Well, that yeah, there it is there. Because obviously we know Zoe's technology or the manhunters. And they can take whatever form they want. So Because it was on Macon's desk as well when he was drawing him. It's on the satellite that we saw. It was on the gates going into the football field. That that laser stuff that cut the cow up.

SPEAKER_02 45:58

So like so the man.

SPEAKER_00 45:59

But if you think about it as well, that cow scene was pretty useless in terms of like in storytelling. It's it's nothing. Yeah. The only thing it would do is connect us to the fact that that portal's been used previously by a guardian.

SPEAKER_02 46:12

So but then again, also yeah, well, see this thing. So some people say that the Guardians created the Manhunters, when realistically, I I think it's actually the Manhunters were a already a race or beings, and then the Guardians conscripted them to be Dr. Justice, and then one Guardian was like, Oh, but these things aren't quite organic, they're sort of mechanically organic. They can be fucked with, and that's what he does, fucked with them, and they end up genociding a couple planets, like a whole sector. But but they they could have taken or learnt about technology that Guardians used, and she they could recreate it, I sh I suppose, and that's why they both use the same technology. But at the same time this whole thing could have been a huge ploy from Diana, because Liana at the initially said in episode three that she went on, she she went around to all she was going around to all the people who were visited by the Green Lantern.

SPEAKER_00 47:17

Yeah, awfully generous for a Guardian to do when they would have much bigger fish to fry. Yeah, the feelings of the families were Yeah, like Guardians never really leave Oa. Alright, so we don't trust Liliana, we don't trust Zoe. I I think that's Anton's a dick.

SPEAKER_02 47:38

I think um John's been well, has been part of the Manhunter's plan since he was a baby.

unknown 47:46

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 47:46

Because I reckon she went around to find all the people who were visited by the Green Lantern Ring to try and find the Green Lantern to kill the Green Lantern. Unfortunately, Hal got the ring, got taken to Abasur, Abasur told Hal everything, just about everything. And before the Manhunter could find the person who has the ring now and kill that person and try and maybe contain the ring, Hal was already indoctrinated. Yeah. So she went around and tried to find she was trying to try and find the trail of the Green Ring or the Green Lantern ring. And then came and stumbled across the Stuarts. Stuart's and the wife of the baby. And then in their mind went, oh, I can use this. Yeah, this is genetic. I can I can have these people create a weapon for me to eventually kill the Green Lantern by this lie that he is next Green Lantern.

SPEAKER_00 48:49

I I think you're onto something there because one thing we haven't seen already is the scene from the trailer where they're obviously on a different planet and they pull the skull from the sand. We haven't seen that yet, so that might be the Manhunter's home world or something along those lines, and we know that the Guardians were very the planet the Manhunter's genocide. Destroyed previously. But I I like the Manhunters being an intergalactic enemy, I think it's pretty small potatoes to take a Spider-Man reference for them to just feel like they want to take over Rushville. So your idea that they're plotting to usurp and control the next Green Lantern in the corpse of Sector Earth is much more on brand for Manhunters in the size and scale of what they kind of want to do.

SPEAKER_02 49:36

Well, the general goal for a Manhunter is always to destroy the planet, like to kill all people on the planet. Yeah. But they did that to whole they did that with the whole of Sector 666.

SPEAKER_00 49:46

Yeah, and I think that doing that to a Green Lantern would be much more productive toward that end goal than taking over Rushville, Nebraska.

SPEAKER_02 49:55

Yeah. Well, if if if they were to if you no offense to anybody from Nebraska listening. If they if they were to kill the Green Lantern for Earth, or for the sector that includes Earth, I can't remember what Green Lantern, like how sector's name is, but I'm It's got a four, an eight, a two, and a one in it, but I don't know the order. So that that that sector, if they take away that Green Lantern, then there's no one watching. Like no one there too. Patrolling that set of planets, yeah. Yeah. So, which leaves them free reign to then destroy the planet and move on.

SPEAKER_00 50:29

Yep. Yep. Well, there it is. All right.

Wrap-Up And Where To Watch

SPEAKER_00 50:33

That will end our episode on Green Lantern Episode 4, The Weenie guys. Thank you for tuning in. Make sure you subscribe to our YouTube for more content like this. We are doing a run of the lanterns, but we also look at movie content also. So if you like our brand of chit chat, make sure you follow us and subscribe. If you want to listen, then go on over to Apple Podcasts and Spotify because we're over there as well. You can watch us on those platforms as well. We've recently converted to video podcasting because that's the trend. So yeah, go and watch us on all places now. Thank you so much for your time, and we will catch you next time. I'm Aaron. Keep learning, keep growing, keep loving fandoms. See you on the next portal, guys. Bye. Bye.