Lanterns Episode 3 Reactions and Breakdown | Did Lanterns Change John Stewart Too Much?

Cold Open On Stewart Family

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Do you think John Stewart's upbringing crossed a line rash in episode three of Lanterns, we got a deeper look at the Stewart family? What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Yes and no. So everything that they did, and you can see how hard it was for them to do, was to give John an opportunity. Some of the way they went about it Yeah, it was pretty extreme. Well, yeah, it was on the more extreme side. And there's contrasts that I think have the way that this way of him being brought up, I think sort of some takes away from Jon Stewart the character as well.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

Which we'll talk about in the episode two.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Sinastro is saying that he is a danger.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

Yep. Yeah. No, I couldn't agree more. We're gonna get into that in the later episode. We're also gonna talk about some of the family dynamics as well as Hal and John's relationship as it develops through episode three outcome. Welcome

Spoiler Warning And What We Cover

SPEAKER_01 1:21

to the Phantom Portals Podcast, the show that proves that the biggest pop culture movies have something to teach you. I'm Aaron, a teacher and a film fan, joined by Brash. How are you going today, Brash?

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Hi, I'm very good.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

He is here, and today we are looking at episode three of Lanterns. We are spoiling it, so if you haven't seen it, make sure you go out and watch it and then come back and listen to our after show. We've got lots of episodes on YouTube, on Spotify, and Apple Podcasts. Go and subscribe to those so you don't miss a thing. Now you were saying just before Brash that Jon Stewart's character seems to have gone through a different origin than what we're used to seeing. I know that there are some debates online saying that this gives his character depth, and other people are saying that it kind of not ruins, but it changes his character significantly from what everybody's

A New Origin For John

SPEAKER_01 2:05

used to from his 50 plus year history as a character of DC. What are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Yeah, so I'll I'll just bring up the my main points of I think why what well not so that it's ruined his character at all, there's in no way. I think in a way it's also it's built up a in a way, maybe almost a better character, potentially story-wise, but some things I think is gonna be what causes I think by by the end of it we're probably gonna get the John Stuart you all know and love from all the comics, but I feel like this was a precursor of how he's gonna be used.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

I feel like that is very much the case. I feel like they're using his ignorance, you could say, and it's ignorant to the point of he was raised in one particular way for one particular mission mission, and even though he did divert his path in terms of being a Marine and then going to art school, he still was very much grounded in the belief he was gonna be a Green Lantern one day.

SPEAKER_00 3:06

So because he wasn't really at art school for that long either.

SPEAKER_01 3:10

Yeah, yeah, and and I think he always did have a passion for art and drawing because that's relevant when he he wanted the crayons for his birthday, and unfortunately he got a Green Lantern suit and a sniper rifle.

SPEAKER_00 3:21

So that's also one of my points that like I don't disagree with, but I think they I wish they had not changed

Comics Roots: Mum As Activist

SPEAKER_00 3:30

that about him because that's gonna ruin a future. But my my main points for it is so in one iteration, John's mother is or she works at like a community center, I guess called, similar to how Aunt Mae does in the Spider-Man games, and she was an active always rallying and supporting and trying to help people, and what's the word I'm looking for? She fought for people's rights. Yep. All people are an advocate and fought for everyone's right um everyone everyone's rights and helped people no matter what, and uplifted them, but always had to fight against, of course, like when people do rallies, you had the police there, and in back in those days too, there's a especially like um John's a first issue, it's heavily uh political. Heavily, heavily well, heavily uh racial. Yeah. And John grew up with his mum that and took part in his rallies and saw his mum as someone who was strong, who protected those who couldn't protect themselves, and was fearless in a way against like everyone trying to push her down and s like stop them from helping others, helping people's rights, everyone's rights. Uh-huh. And I think that was um a main part of why when John when the Guardians picked John and he finally actually when John and I was sorry, when the Guardians and Hal first saw John, and John was like, Oh, I'm not so sure he's pretty anti-authority, because in a comic series, it's pretty obviously authority because like a lot of the racism with the police and that and authority's challenging a police officer. And rich people and stuff like that. And he when they first see him, he is helping some other people who are will being racially profiled, and and then later on, he then also his first action pretty much as Green Lanton is to was uh stopping a couple of uh couple of really racist people. And I felt that was supported to him by the fact of seeing his mother being so fearless, always advocating for people's rights and trying to uplift people, and that's how John became who he is and fought for those people. And in this, I I never like it is brought up by his mother and uh and the casting of his family is phenomenal perfect casting, it was phenomenal casting, phenomenal acting, and I fucking loved every second of it. But um the at the very start when she is talking to the guardian when having coffee and brought up brought up race and the fact that they didn't know they don't know what it is like with African Americans. Uh so they always are always persecuted and to ask a black man uh if he's afraid is bullshit.

SPEAKER_01 6:27

Yeah, it's a bit of a loaded question.

SPEAKER_00 6:29

Exactly. And but the thing the thing that's hit and miss with me is and I love the way they also played the Guardians, because the Guardians are blue-skinned aliens.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:40

Of a thing, that's why I think that's why she asked the question when she's like, Oh, what she's like when you ask the black man are they afraid? And she's she mean by black do you mean brown skinned? 'Cause they they just can't compute. They're realistically, the guardians pick all the rings and the guardians are picked from different planets, all types of species, races, races, and everything. Like the rings don't pick by race, they pick by willpower. Like that's what they're charged off of. But that's the whole core of John is or from the comics, is his his uh probably like his an admiration for his mother and her will willingness to keep fighting for people's rights, and I think that's sort of taken away and changed to be sort of now they've just turned him into a like

Fear Conditioning Versus True Willpower

SPEAKER_00 7:35

a a programmed programmed person to uh not know fear. Yeah. The other issue I have with that is at no point did we really see anything uh like see him ever actually be afraid. So even when he's like, Oh, that why we do William Tell and with the apple in the head, and now the father shoots the apple off the son's head with an arrow, he does with a gun, obviously, but um uh at that no point he's never really been shown fear, so he doesn't know fear. And I think that's gonna be one of the biggest catalysts later on is the fact that he's been conditioned from birth to no fear, which is great until he actually is met with until he is actually becomes fearful. He won't know how to make it. Faces some genuine fear, and the whole point of a Green Lantern ring, it's not that you're fearless, it's about you're able to face fear and overcome it.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

Yeah. See, I don't even know if Hal Jordan's mastered that aspect of it because as we've we've sort of talked about the fact that John grew up with his father very present, even though his upbringing was very much conditioned. His mother and his father programmed him, we'll say in quote marks, to prepare for a future that they didn't know the job requirements of, so they did the best that they could in the most extreme fashion that they they could. But Hal Jordan grew up with his father being deceased, and he kind of learnt from that trauma to run towards danger. That's exactly like he didn't look at the plane crash that his father died in and say, I'm never flying a plane ever again. He said, I'm gonna do that, and I'm not going to die. So the both of them have faced fear in very different kinds of ways, where John's been really conditioned to it from birth, and Hal's kind of using it as a like he's heading towards the fear and the danger, but he's not really processing any of the harder emotions underneath. And I feel like John's doing the exact same thing. Like he is processing and going through this programming, but he is still actually just suppressing a lot of the emotions that he'd feel because we see it come out sometimes in the earlier episodes of Lantern, like as soon as he opened the car door in episode two and he saw that the alien goo was all over the seats, like he got genuinely frustrated at that. So you can see there's some emotion under the surface there, and Hal has this way that seeming to bring it out slowly.

Hal’s Training Style And Intuition

SPEAKER_01 9:56

And as we've talked about before on these reaction and breakdown episodes, I feel like, and I know you do too, that Hal has a deeper part to play in where he's he's acting as if he is very outwardly oppressive and not truly involved with the training process of John, but I feel like he's actually trying to train him for something that John doesn't realize yet, because Hal is a very reactive and decisive person, and he will also question rules that authority figures give him if he believes they're not right. And I'm not saying that Hal is always right and he has a like a god complex in terms of his judgment, but you can see it in this episode when he goes in and saves the grey wolf. That was obviously a choice that he made on his own, apart from the Guardians, as it was revealed later. But John Stewart is a person who follows those orders to a T. Even something as simple as sit down, I'll be back in a second, or I'll I'll return. And he sits there the entire time. And then when he's asked about it, he says, You ask me to sit, you ask me to wait, that's what I did. And my question to you, I guess, Brash, is if the Guardians are selecting these manhunters to be, or sorry, the if they're selecting these lanterns to be obedient as John is, disciplined, decisive, and precise, how is that different from the manhunters that they've abandoned from being peacekeepers of the galaxy who are completely programmable? So, my like my idea is John is very similar, just a human sort of form of a robot in this space, I guess, but suppressing the emotions to me is never a good idea because it always comes out in unforeseen ways.

SPEAKER_00 11:34

Especially for a lantern, like the lantern ring like runs off emotion and like you're and you need like hope, like there's the the blue red lanterns of hope, and they run off hope and green's run off will, the willpower, the will to overcome obstacles and adversities and stuff like that. And I feel like John now, and I think that I'm hoping I see here's the thing. I I had an inkling that Hal sort of caught on all along that John was more than just a backup. I'm hope waiting to see what happens next episode when Sinestro's like, oh dude, so I think he's a backup dude. But I think I think we've already seen that in trailers. I think I've I may I was saying I may be just projecting or anything, but I'm pretty sure doesn't he doesn't he say he's my replacement?

SPEAKER_01 12:30

He does. The dialogue is extended in the trailer to where he goes and meets Sinestro, whereas in episode two, we just hear him say, literally, um, tell me that John Store.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

I'm pretty sure he's he's like he's my replacement. So I I am I think that Hal know knew all along, and that's why Hal went to the house before like when he went to the house and met his parents and everything at the end. I think it was because as soon as the Guardians told him that, oh yeah, hey, you'll be tracking someone as a backup just in case anything to happen to you, you're getting old in age, rah rah. And I straight away he was like, they're trying to fucking kick me out.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Yeah, 100%. You can see that by his immediate attitude, too. Because yeah, that that scene and that reaction by him seems really, really raw because we know that Hal is obviously someone who thinks about a lot of things, but he's he flips it on a dime, you know. He says, No, you're not getting this ring over my dead body, but also training starts on Monday, so I'll see you later.

SPEAKER_00 13:27

So but you see, when he when he does that and he turns around and just before he flies off, you can see on his face that he's he he didn't like what he said. Oh yeah, yeah, very true. He looked, he like he turned around and sort of like half sighed before he took off. Like he because he know because he he he probably's like he probably like he doesn't hate John. And he doesn't he doesn't not want to train John to be uh a Green Lantern. He just knows that the sneaky guardians have some sort of backyard deal, yeah, and are trying to replace him because he knows that well, they're trying to replace him with someone who is programmable, yeah. Someone who always follows orders, which is which is like one of the last things John says to the guardian before the end of the interview when she's like, We want you to replace how do you have a problem with that? And he's like, Is that an order? And she's like, if you take the job, then yes it will be. And he's like, Well then it doesn't matter what I think. Yeah, and that there is exactly why John is so dangerous, because if he's just following orders, then how can he realistically like choose what's wrong or right?

SPEAKER_01 14:45

It it kind of fits as well with the line that was earlier said in that interview scene as well, where he describes what he knows about the Guardians already, and he says, I know that you're all blue, I know that you recent one of you recently died at the hands of Sinestro, and he says, My condolences. And then she says later, you know, you're chosen because of those condolences. And I don't think that means because he's showing some sorry and some empathy in general, like he's feeling that feeling. I think it's specifically because he's feeling that empathy and that sorry and that condolence for the guardians. So he knows that, or at least the guardians there know that he understands they are the authority figure, and Sinestro worked outside of that to kill or end one of their lives. Because that's a mystery we don't know about yet. We know that Hal obviously put a stop to Sinestro and imprisoned him. We don't know what the disagreement was, but I'm gonna guess that there's probably some grey area that suggested that Sinestro was acting in accordance with his best judgment, as Hal often does, because they are mentor and mentee as a relationship as well. And I think that that will be revealed a little bit later and is definitely something he is trying to push onto John is to be a little bit more questioning of the orders that come through.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

More reactive. Yep, because we like we all know, and the whole thing is John likes to wait. John likes to be patient, but that's not always a good thing.

SPEAKER_01 16:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

If you wait and you're patient too long, you could miss, which eventually, which is of like event and or it can be taken away from you, which is exactly what happened when he was taken trying to take that shot. He waited for nine months, waited, waited as soon as he he had the shot there initially, but missed it. And then when he had the shot lineup again, how Jordan swooped in and stole it from him.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

It was almost like waiting for that perfect moment can sometimes mean missing the moment.

SPEAKER_00 16:40

And I think that that's a lesson that Hal's trying to teach John, and I think what will can he teach to continue to teach John by sort of trying to rewrite some of the programming he's been through to think for himself more instead of taking orders more, yeah. Um, and know that sometimes you have to do the right thing, sometimes, and I think that's also when he was talking about his ring and the power of the ring. While John's like, Oh, why did you just use it to make money? Blah blah blah. And he's like, sometimes you have to know, like you have to know when to use the ring. Yeah. Like it's it's it like it is one of the most powerful weapons in the universe. Just using it willy-nilly for everything could cause more harm than good.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

Yeah. I think the last few episodes have also backed up that point because the first time we see John use the ring ever, Hal Jordan literally puts it on the dash, drives a car off a cliff, and makes him make an impulsive choice about how he's going to use that ring, how he is going to survive. And he says bubble wrap, obviously. And he's he's obviously impressed by that because you can see it on Carl Chandler slash Hal Jordan's face when he meets him back at the taco stand. But then again, he does the same thing when he's trying to teach him to fly. He doesn't give him any lessons, no instructions, nothing. He's trying to get him to use his intuition to fly, simply just fly, just do it, see what happens. So the the lessons and the slow little parts that we see about Jon Stewart using this ring is definitely in accordance with what we're saying here. That Hal's trying to teach him to be a little bit more impulsive, a little bit more ready in the moment, and also to use his analytical

Obedience, Manhunters, And Dangerous Orders

SPEAKER_01 18:20

skills, but do so in a decisive manner as opposed to waiting for that perfect moment in order to act. But I think that their relationship is going to develop as we go on, and I don't know when the reveal is going to happen, but I actually feel like these two are going to come to a head before they come together because I feel like John's suppressing a lot, and also if we're talking about resentment, if we move on to talk about resentment, John Sr. spent his entire life after the moment the ring attempted to choose him and he said, Yes, I'm afraid. He spent his whole life kind of looking at the life Hal Jordan had and thinking that it could have been him, and that would put a whole lot of pressure on John Sr. And then to have that obviously backed up by his wife Bernadette and then given that second chance, it almost impresses upon John that fix my mistake kind of mentality, which is difficult for a child to go through, for one, but then also Jon Stewart grows up thinking the reason I can't connect with my brothers so much is because Hal Jordan took my father's job, and the reason that my mum and dad got me a green lantern suit and a rifle for my fifth birthday and not the crayons I wanted was because Hal Jordan took my dad's job. So there's all this built-up resentment for him. And I know John specifically said in episodes before, Do you resent Hal Jordan? He said, No, I do not. Don't know how true that is because he's been he's been asked consistently to perform under pressure and to suppress his emotions so much, and he would know that that sort of emotion wouldn't be a productive one to admit in a job interview with the the the guardians there. So that resentment towards Hal will probably have to develop in a particular way as well, because even in his own personal career, his military career, his career in the Marines ended because of Hal Jordan as well. So there's a lot of history there.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Yeah, and I think we found out the qu the answer to the question of from what's his name? Anton? Anton, yeah. We found that the question of Anton of like, oh, have you ever been betrayed by someone you trusted? And we had like I think we found the answer there with that being his mother. Yeah. Well yeah, lying to him about the birds. And realistically, she did it out of a good place, but you can pick up a few lies that she told throughout the whole thing, like when she was trying to convince John Sr. to to this intense fearless training of John by saying, Oh, the guardians came by and they um are sorry they didn't pick you. The guardians weren't sorry they didn't pick you. They were like they were more like, oh shit, sorry we we didn't realise that uh the human species picked up, didn't like getting picked up in their beds in the middle of the night in a green bubble and asked if they're afraid.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

Yeah, here's some compensation in the floor.

SPEAKER_00 21:14

But the thing is also is uh and here's almost like insurance compensation. But as much in as and the burner lies a few times through that same like with the birds, uh the same the birds washing and they're reporting back to Leland other guidance when she actually didn't know at all if the guardians were insane, the guardians weren't answering her any of her calls. She got a massive salad dish her roof just to try and see if she can contact them, but was unsuccessful throughout the whole lot. And then finally came clean to John saying, Hey, I lied. If you want to if you don't want to keep doing this, so be it. John's response is Mum, grab an apple, put it on your head, I'm gonna shoot it off it. Yeah. I think that was a little bit of a um I think that was him sort of overcoming, like sort of overcorrecting over overcoming his. Resentment in a way like saying you lied to me, I'm still gonna do what you want me to do, but this is but it will I'm gonna shoot an apple off your head just for a little bit of payback. That's just the way it came off to me. Because he seemed like when he's like when she's like, Oh, I'll go wake up dad, she's like, No, I don't like dad, I'll shoot the apple off your head. I'm like, Oh, dad, kid.

SPEAKER_01 22:21

Yeah, and you saw for a moment there she was like she was almost sort of questioning the thing that she was getting John Sr. to do the whole time as well.

SPEAKER_00 22:29

Yeah, and and you can see like she was like because when John Sr. f when the mother first asked John to do it to John Sr., John Sr. was like, uh, excuse me, yeah, and then uh when John's like, Oh, you do it, and then she went out and did the same thing as John Sr. You can see on her face that she was petrified. Um but then succeeded, and then she sort of had to shake it off. Maybe afterwards had to go change her undies, because I'm thinking I would have. Absolutely, but um, yeah, but came through last week, she said, see, I knew you could do it, we're back on the path. But on the side note too, I think the guardians are lying.

Family Resentment And The Cost

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Yeah, what about specifically?

SPEAKER_00 23:12

I don't think that that ring that asked John Sr. if he was afraid was Abinsu's ring.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

I would generally think that that's probably the case as well, because didn't Hal say that the ring came to find him?

SPEAKER_00 23:31

Yes. Yeah, and if they're if they're following some sort of comic continuity, the ring could have gone to two people. It could have gone to Hal Jordan or Guy Gardner. Hal Jordan was closer.

SPEAKER_02 23:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:44

And that's why the ring and the ring picked him up, took him to Abinsura, Abinsullah spilled some shit, and so I reckon he's uh he's told him about some things that he hasn't disclosed yet, because he's like, I didn't understand that alien mbo mumbo jumbo. When he had the ring, he had the translator, he could understand everything he said, which is why I think there's a little bit of secrecy there and what Abinsula told how. But that is a reason why the like the showrunner said, I've already said that Guy Gardner has the ring, because he was next in line for the ring. Well, he was one of the two options that they had. I think the guardians had already, in their minds, uh started thinking about trying to handpick their own guardians.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

Hmm. Well, if they're able to do that and supersede the ring, then they can obviously condition a task force to do whatever they so choose. The the risk with doing that is obviously to push the audience to have a distaste towards the guardians forevermore in all future DC projects.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

And I know I think that's that's the thing, that's the thing that's already happened. So at the very start, the Guardians were this all good entity, and slowly but surely they're not they're not bad per se, but they dabble in the shades of grey. In this context, it wouldn't be a fact that they're bad, they just want to make sure that they are fully in control, not like when the one guardian was like, hey, look what I can do to the manhunters, now they're a genocidal force. Yeah, they just don't want that to happen again, so they want to make sure that they are in full control of this powerful uh these powerful ring or weapons that they have created, that they are in full control of them. Yeah. Um and having having so many different races, different species, different uh aliens from different planets with different uh ideologies, different social structures, different religious entities and religious beliefs, like it's a lot. Yeah, it's

Bernadette’s Lies And The Apple Test

SPEAKER_00 25:50

a lot, and there can be a lot of clashing. Well, that's exactly. Abinsor was also known to be a bit of a extremist? No, extremist. I wouldn't say even say a rebel, he was more more morally dubious. Not dubious, like he not even dubious, he was probably like he was Hua Gong to the Jedi Council, right per se. So he even like they could give a message to say, hey, this is a guess that person's bad, go kill him. And Abansor would be like, Why that's that's free thinking and thought. I'm just gonna kill him, but sort of thing. So like, and that's the whole thing of uh Abensor going and seeing he in the comics. Abinsor went and saw Atrocitous, and he Atrocus told him about manhunters, and that they were products of the Guardians, and that's when Abasaur's like really, and then went back to the Guardians and sort of like question the Guardians, and the Guardians are like, I don't know what you're talking about, man. Complete denial. I don't know, I don't know what you're talking about. Don't go and go see Atrustus again. He doesn't know what he's talking about.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

Well, they are presented as rage filled, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:03

Yeah, and then he goes and sees Atrustus again, and Atrustus gives him tells him his future, which is that he's going to die on planet Earth, blah blah, and then because there's like a great evil that's on planet Earth, which ends up being the black hand, blah blah blah. But uh yeah what he failed to mention was he was the trustus was a cause of Avensor's death. But yeah, but uh the everything that they did uh really say did come to fruition. So that there has been a bit of a sway, so you couldn't necessarily say that the guardians are bad, they just want to make sure that their weapons that they created to keep the peace is used correctly, I guess you say from their perspective though. From their perspective, from their perspective of beings that have been around for since the dawn of time, just about.

SPEAKER_01 27:55

I think it's pretty I won't say irresponsible, but I think it's pretty hard to have a race of beings or a or a corpse of beings who whose main power is the power of will, meaning that they are strong of will, meaning that they're all very stubborn, like a lot of them have all this willpower. Some of them could be very stubborn in their own kind of way, and they're all trying to control them. Green lanterns. Yeah, Green Lanterns to control them to do the precise thing that the Guardians want them to do. I think that's really a not a good model for success.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

Well, it's not it's not so much like it's not so much a model, it's it's the thing of and uh it's brought up in the show of how doing things like do things terrestrially. Well, yeah, how Jordan's told not to interfere with a lot of the terrestrial with the terrestrial stuff, but then again, when you're faced with uh okay, I'm on my home planet by the way having a beer, and someone tells me about a genocidal guy

Are The Guardians Manipulating The Rings

SPEAKER_00 28:58

who's killed a lot of people, and he's gonna be at this house right now, Hal's first thought is oh, let's go fucking grab him and put him in jail.

SPEAKER_01 29:04

Yeah, well, maybe that's actually foreshadowing the fact that Hal does get extremely involved in his his home city being destroyed, and that's a terrestrial issue, and that ends up being the reason he ends up like liaising with parallax and becoming a villain for a very long time. Well, that's perhaps the Guardians are trying to prevent that sort of catastrophe about the whole Jedi thing not getting too attached to various different places and and people, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:34

The other thing I uh sort of picked up on now after the fact is because I was well, I was always sort of confused. I I'm sure one said Guy Gardner's got Hal's Ring, but Guy Gardner's been a Green Lantern for has only been like not too long, but at least for like a couple of years, he's been Green Lantern, so they he kind of been the Green Lantern with Hal's Ring because there was Hal. I think Hal gave up his ring years ago.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

Yeah, I was gonna say that. I think that he's he's retired it, and that shows a little bit of growth. So something's happened between 2016 and 2026. We know that in 2022, when Superman happens, Guy Gardner is definitely the lantern. It seems like he's been operating for a little bit of time before that. So maybe sometime close to 2020 2016, Hal decides that it is time to sort of settle down and pass the ring on, but it eventually ends up going to Guy, which then implies the sec the second person, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:35

It implies and because and that's the thing.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

John failed the test just like his father did then.

SPEAKER_00 30:40

Well, no, he hasn't failed. It's it's more so that it's the ring's choice.

SPEAKER_01 30:48

So the ring why would he choose Guy over John, honestly?

SPEAKER_00 30:53

A a lot of people think that. But it but in even though Guy is arrogant and a douchey in a way, like he still presents that will and like heroic will to do good, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:09

Even if it is for prestige, it seems like, because he is very applaud me. Not in not in the DCU, but he has in the comics, yeah. You're correct.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

But he has dabbled in those other uh uh those other aspects as well.

SPEAKER_01 31:26

He's tried a red lantern ring here at the It's like Superman trying Red Crypt and Artist for a while.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

That shows that it like it's a ring's choice and the guardians really don't choose, which is I think like another lie that is going to be exposed.

SPEAKER_01 31:39

We are very distrusting of the guardians on this podcast, I tell you.

SPEAKER_00 31:43

Oh, I I am a little bit because I I think they're being I oh I think they're being a little bit well d underhanded and devious, as we can see by the interview. They are obviously like they're going by they're like, even though they created these things to choose the correct people, things can happen and things can change and change a person's personality, which was what happened to Sinestro. And the only reason, well, this is again going back to comics, the reason why Sinestro's personality changed was because he got a vision, he got told a vision of the future from atroces. And Trotstus said, Hey, your planet's gonna go to shit because all political infighting and stuff like that, and civil wars and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 32:21

Well, then he embraces that fear of that, and he it's a self-fulfilling prophecy after that.

SPEAKER_00 32:25

Exactly. So, like, no one no one is impervious to it, like even how like Grant like called like one the greatest like Green Lantern of all time. He when he the loss of his hometown and then the affection of parallax, he kills pretty much all the guardians and all the Green Lanterns, and Carl Rayner comes in and because one guardian survives, gets takes a ring and finds Carl Rayner, and Kyle Raino rebuilds, relights up the lantern on Ola and restarts the Green Lanterns and brings back all the guardians and stuff like that. But so no one no one's impervious to it. Though to be fair, it did take the embodiment of fear possessing how Jordan to power it. But even still, like he it uh that's what happened. No one's no one no one is impervious, and I think that's what's gonna happen with John in a sense. I think he's going to all this emotion he's suppressing is gonna come out. It's gonna follow up, and I think there's gonna be a case for because the show is called Lantern, so I'm

Guy Gardner Timeline And Ring Politics

SPEAKER_00 33:30

hoping for more than just Green Lanterns, if it's called Lanterns, I'm hoping other lanterns get involved, and with my suspicions of Ant Anton either being either being atrocitous or a member of the Red Lanterns.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

Maybe not yet, but maybe it develops into that a little bit later. So Because the prisoner did say vengeance was what they were there for.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

Which which is rage and vengeance is what that's their motto, which is vengeance. But not all of the followers of Anton were Red Lanterns. So these could just be in the followers he sent them down to do recon. They're all getting killed, and Anton's like, ah shit. And then probably eventually when they're stopped from here they go killing again. When they're stopped for or where because I don't believe that John and Hal are gonna give up the Manhunter to to them, like in the 48 hours, they're like, ah, time to call the big guns, and then I think that's when maybe some red lan the red lanterns are gonna show up.

SPEAKER_01 34:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Whether or not it's gonna be atrocitous, that's one thing, uh maybe, and maybe Hal beats Atrocitous, who knows? Or maybe even Hal gets attacked or knocked out or something like that. So then John gets a ring and John beats atrocitous or something, that would be pretty cool. But I think at some point, maybe if that is the case, maybe something happens and John because I know in I think in the after trailer for the the spoiler for the next episode, there's a satellite image of John's house. So maybe something happens to his family, or like something bad happens to his family, and that pushes him over the edge, and he may end up like also dabbling in sort of one of those other colours. And that might be why sort of we see in the end of the first episode John rocking up and checking Hale for the Ring and all that kind of stuff, and John not actually seemingly being a Green Lantern, is maybe because he realised that the way he was brought up, yes, it made him fearless, but also made him off.

SPEAKER_01 35:42

Maybe he feels like he's not ready. Yeah, or undeserving.

SPEAKER_00 35:45

Yeah, so he has to sort of cut himself off and do his own thing and sort of I guess in a way become human again and sort of feel all the feelings and do all the things, and and that may be his overcoming overcoming that's his arc, yeah. To oh yeah, overcome that and become a Green Lantern after that fact, and he may get his own ring because at the same time when Guy Gardner was a Green Lantern, well you see in see the changes and things because it always meant to be like sort of one ring and one guy like Green Lantern on Earth, but then there's always more cases. There's cases where like fucking all three of them had rings, and it's like, yeah, like what like who knows?

SPEAKER_01 36:28

We just need three powerful lanterns to defeat this evil foe. Yeah, they all have one. This is how it goes.

SPEAKER_00 36:33

We just so happen, like all of a sudden we just so happen to have like end up having like eight Green Lanterns from Earth, you know.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Yeah, they end up loving it.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

I've never had an Earthling before, but all of a sudden now we get like eight in a row.

SPEAKER_01 36:44

Well, how Jordan worked out so well, so yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:47

Well, Grace Green Lantern all the time. Well, all the Green Lantern's really worked out well because John ends up becoming, well in the comics, ends up becoming a guardian, the first mortal guardian. But proving how just how good he is. But another thing I think that ruins sort of John's character a little bit for me was yes, he went to art school, which is fine, but like art was more of a Carl Rayner thing. Yeah, that's very true. I wish he had I wish he had gone to art like gone and stayed to be.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

That's a good point, yeah. Because if they do introduce Kyle Rayner now, how are they gonna set him apart? You like art? I like art too.

SPEAKER_00 37:21

Yeah, what's the maybe they maybe they met in art school at some point. Maybe, maybe, but yeah, I I would have I would have liked them to stick to the architecture because the architecture is more like involved in knowing the intricacies.

SPEAKER_01 37:33

Intricacies, it would have lined up better with him being able to create his father's watch.

SPEAKER_00 37:38

Yeah, exactly. And that's another thing that I

Red Lantern Theories And Family Stakes

SPEAKER_00 37:40

think uh in a small way ruined it a little bit for me. Is that Guardian told him what to do instead of create your father's watch? But he told him, think about the intricacies, think about all the disparate moving parts. The Green Lantern, the the Guardian told him to do that. I would have preferred him to say, create your father's watch. You put the ring on, and he does it that way intuitively. And he himself created it that way instead of so in my in my head watching that, I'm like, well, if he hadn't said to do it that way, would he have just created a watch?

SPEAKER_01 38:12

That's very true. That's very true, and it also does take away one of those special things that's always mentioned about John Stewart and his connect his and and the way of he does his constructs.

SPEAKER_00 38:21

He does, he built his constructs meticulously, yeah. So every fine minute detail is accurate, and that's the way he has some of the most powerful constructs. That sort of was taken away of his own creativity and his own self by that guardian telling him he should do it that way. When realistically, the how would the guardians know they don't use the rings? Like they they realistically no well, I know no time, but realistically, no time I have I that I remember has an actual guardian used a ring or been a Green Latin themselves. Yeah. So but yeah, the Guardian telling him how to do a like make a construct, I think takes away from John John's amazing ability that only John Stewart has to do that kind of structural way of creating his constructs. So that that that's sort of that's sort of one thing I was like.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

That's the pet peeve of the week.

SPEAKER_00 39:20

Oh, yeah, that's that's what a little pet peeve. Like, it won't ruin it at all, but it is my sort of pet peeve. I wish he had actually like went and become an architect.

SPEAKER_01 39:28

And I wish Well, how did he create the bird in episode two? That kind of just put puffed into existence, didn't it?

SPEAKER_00 39:33

It wasn't it was like a heart and a liver and something.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

Well that's that's what I mean. He doesn't really create organic things. I've seen him create meticulous mechanical structures from the inside out.

SPEAKER_00 39:45

All Green Lanterns have created like life.

SPEAKER_01 39:49

Yeah, imitations of life at least.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Like uh how Jordan created his whole hometown. Yeah, yeah. Jon Stewart created his little sister who died. And it wasn't even like green, like she he created it, and it was like a personal right in front of you. Yeah, that he used, I think, to help his mother get over the trauma of losing the daughter or something. Um I don't remember that one. But yeah, but like as it like again, fucking Jon Stewart here just above the rest, fucking creating real people. There he is, yeah. All right. But yeah, every every everyone sort of created like life in in in a way. But yeah, John is ha has been is more known for his meticulous like constructs of like machinery, buildings, worlds, and everything like that. Not so much birds, but I get the birds because the birds has been his core childhood memory from the age of five. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 40:47

So same with I think a negative one now, though, because of the mother betrayal. But the the birds, I think that's a negative memory now.

SPEAKER_00 40:56

Yeah, and that's I think that's why he's like it's just a bird.

SPEAKER_01 40:59

Yeah, yeah, because we were wondering that, weren't we, how he was able to squash it so quickly if it was something so cherished.

SPEAKER_00 41:05

Something deep, cherished like childhood memory, but no, it was a fucking it's a lot of represents a lie, a really big lie. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 41:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:12

But yeah, um no, I fucking this episode I think is I think so far is my favourite episode.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:20

I think the first one's still my favourite, and this one's second.

SPEAKER_00 41:23

At the same time, because at the same time, uh watching how he was brought up made me so angry. Because I might just poor.

SPEAKER_01 41:30

I think it's supposed to.

SPEAKER_00 41:31

Yeah, exactly. I think it's supposed to, but at the same time, you can see how how desperate the his parents were in making sure that he had every opportunity that well his father missed. Then I think it's also gonna be brought up that I reckon it was all set up from the Guardians anyway.

SPEAKER_01 41:51

Well, that would harbour a lot of anger and resentment in turn in Jon Stewart about

Nitpicks: Art School And Constructs

SPEAKER_01 41:55

how his life and family was all for Yeah, because like we see him, we see him in 2026.

SPEAKER_00 42:01

He's not a lantern. Yeah. Well, so what the user's like, oh, I'm just gonna be patient with you.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

Well, I reckon he will be in Man of Tomorrow, which uh which comes out next year.

SPEAKER_00 42:11

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I haven't said by by the end of the season, I reckon he'll be a Green Lantern.

SPEAKER_01 42:15

I can just imagine you and me sitting in the cinema watching Man of Tomorrow, and we see Jon Stewart coming on, he's here. Because yeah, I think that's the thing we always say on a Phantom Portals podcast about a movie. Sometimes we say this should have been a TV show because we would have got to see the characters develop so well, and I feel like that is exactly what this episode does.

SPEAKER_00 42:34

And I'm so glad, I'm so glad Lance and the TV show. This is why I always say, like, that especially superhero movies, they or superhero genre genre definitely is more is needed more to be TV shows than movies.

SPEAKER_01 42:49

Because you get that development in the backstory, because uh I actually think that going into Man of Tomorrow, Jon Stewart's Green Lantern will be the character I know the best and the most as as he enters it. So because of this history that we've got with the HBO TV show, and who better to do it than like HBO, to be honest. They've they're capable and have produced so many great ones. So I think we're in good hands, even though they've changed it, like we discussed at the start of the episode, they have changed the origin of Jon Stewart. I feel like a lot of fans have liked the changes in terms of the depth that it allows. I feel like there are just some some, as we've talked about, some little nitpicks that we've been going through as well through the episode.

SPEAKER_00 43:30

Which is those nitpicks, and even those nitpicks aren't even like big issues. Like Yeah, no. I I'm oh I'm overall, I overall love his backstory in this show.

SPEAKER_02 43:40

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 43:41

I do and I think I think it's more of an empathy than me. That I I hate the fact that he has a strange relationship with his parents, whereas in the comics, he he more looked up to his mother, and I'm sure in some small way, in a way, he sort of does in this show, but I feel it to be a bit more resentment, as he said, like. Like I grew up 18 years in my household missing my family.

SPEAKER_01 44:03

Yeah. But then again, he also said that he very much respects his parents because humans love the people that raised us. That's something that he said as well. Like, yeah, I think he does have a lot of respect for his parents. And I actually thought that he didn't eat meat out of a rebellion or a protest towards his dad, who always took him to get burgers after he shot the arrow apple off his head. But apparently it's just because he hated he didn't like the burgers anyway, and he was able to disclose that to his parents too. But I feel like their heart was definitely in the right place. But the title of this episode is Outcast, and I think that harkens back to the fact that John was starting to feel like an outcast in his own family.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

And the outcast song.

SPEAKER_01 44:41

Yeah, yeah. Represent. He sings the outcast song and then gets kicked out of the car.

SPEAKER_00 44:46

Yeah. But um I love I love how uh his brother's uh

Outcast Theme And Siblings Fallout

SPEAKER_00 44:50

brother, like his older brother Aaron specifically, is like telling him like are you what are you gonna be are you gonna be afraid that you pa about parents all your whole life? I mean what they're doing is just making you lame, yeah. But yeah, which is a fully teenage attitude to say, Oh, yeah, but um another another line I I sort of picked up and was like about is in that interview as well, when when the guardian was actually like, oh because what uh how does she describe his upbringing because he's like oh no unconventional? No no because she was like she used the word programmed, but she used conditioned conditioned, conditioned, and John's like we call that race, like raised, right? And she's like, I don't see the distinction, I don't see the difference of the chapter.

SPEAKER_01 45:38

Well, there is one, is what he's saying.

SPEAKER_00 45:39

And then he's like, Oh, there is one, but he can't tell her what it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like he's like, Oh, there is one. And then there's sort of a pause. I think she was like waiting for like him to say, like to tell her what the difference is, but then he couldn't tell her the differences. Because I realistically, I think I think he wants to believe that I think he knows as well.

SPEAKER_01 45:59

I think you're right.

SPEAKER_00 46:00

I think in the back of your mind he doesn't know, but he does he doesn't want to believe it. He wants to be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 46:03

Well, he watched his brothers be raised. He he watched his brothers be raised and he watched him be conditioned and prepared.

SPEAKER_00 46:09

Yeah, the thing is, even with his brothers, like his brothers, I I reckon we're gonna find that his brothers don't speak to the family anymore. Because you can see when um he comes back to tell them the news to think none of his other family members were there or anything like that, and you don't see any of his other family members. Yeah, that's true, the brothers aren't there at all. Or in any older, not that we saw much of his older life parts, except for him being in the army on that mission for nine months, and then when he mum gives him letters to the art school, but we don't see his old he's only older siblings at all. So I reckon the older siblings have a lot of resentment for the family because I reckon because they were so busy training and conditioning John that the other kids were neglected. Not I wouldn't say oh, I wouldn't say neglected, like neglect, but like they were more priorities. Yeah, they they their priority was John and training John. They still fed and clothed and did school and they can listen to what they wanted to do and do all that kind of stuff with the kazoo. But I uh but they as much as John says I grew up 18 years missing my family, I reckon Aaron and his other little buttler have the same argument, could have the same argument.

SPEAKER_01 47:20

Yep, yeah, very

Final Thoughts And Subscribe

SPEAKER_01 47:22

true. All right, let's end it there for the episode uh three of our lanterns breakdown. If you haven't already, make sure you go and subscribe to our YouTube channel and our Spotify and Apple podcasts. We very much enjoy having you here and making these and having a chat about an awesome show of lanterns, and we'll be back next week to do the same thing on episode four. So this is Aaron. Keep learning, keep growing, keep loving fandoms. I'll see you on the next portal. Bye.