Lessons from Maul: Shadow Lord

Maul’s Tiny Screen Time Problem

SPEAKER_03 0:00

When we first meet Darth Maul, he appears in the Phantom Menace for roughly six minutes. He speaks only thirty-one words, and yet more than twenty-five years later, he is still discussed as one of the most important villains in all of Star Wars. This creates a real question. Is his reputation justified by the character, or is it sustained by overhype from the Phantom and the audience? We look at that today on the Phantom Porters podcast. Welcome to the Phantom Porters Podcast, a podcast that proves that your favorite films has something to teach you. If you want more from your movies and you're in the right place, I'm joined as always by my co-host Brash. How are you, Brash?

SPEAKER_01 0:48

I was hoping for Kenobi. Why are you here?

SPEAKER_03 0:51

Hello. And I am Aaron, a teacher and a film fan, and today, today, ladies and gentlemen, on this humble, humble day, we are here to talk to you about the character of Darth Maul, or previously known as Darth Maul, now simply goes by Maul. And more specifically, we're looking at the show Shadow Lord.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

Artist, formerly known as Darth Maul.

Spoiler Warning And Show Setup

SPEAKER_03 1:11

Yes, the artist, the Sith Lord, formerly known as Darth Maul, is who we're talking about today. And in this episode, we will talk about Maul Shadow Lord and our opinions on the show that seems to be taking the internet by storm. We are also going to be looking at the evolution of Maul from a toy-selling blunt weapon to a fully fleshed-out fan favorite character. He's gone through quite a bit of growth brash over his years on the screen. And we're also going to look at one of his primary personality traits, which is vengeance and revenge. Something that definitely is a motivator for this character. We're going to dive deep into it in this episode. So without any further ado, let's crack on. Spoiler alert, everybody. This is going to spoil the show Maul Shadow Lord. So if you have not watched it, you need to pause, watch, and come back.

SPEAKER_01 1:58

Watch all 10 episodes because they are out now.

SPEAKER_03 2:00

Yep. Heavy, heavy spoilers ahead. And I mean everything is getting spoiled. Okay. Like eggs from two weeks ago. We're spoiling it. All right. So Maul Shadow Lord. This is a show that is created by. Well, actually, hang on.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

We should be like, welcome back after you've paused and watched all two episodes. So welcome back to the episode.

SPEAKER_03 2:17

So you're now a better human from having watched 10 episodes of More Shadow Lord. Welcome. So yeah, this is created by Dave Fallone, who is a mastermind, in my opinion, in Star Wars lore. He just has such a deep knowledge and love and passion for the character. And this guy combined his strength, his powers combined with one other absolute Star Wars nerd who I love in Sam Whitwer. And both of them created this concoction that is Maul, Shadow Lord, and Brash. Spoiler alert to everybody as well. Brash is literally like 15 minutes off watching the last episode. So give us your give us your rundown, Brash. What's your what's your hot take?

SPEAKER_01 2:55

My take? I was waiting. I've been waiting for the like something like this, and now I'm even more hyped for it because it still hasn't come yet. Is um a more movie. And I'm hoping because like it got tears in solo at the very end. You see him at the very end, he stands up and he lights up his lightsaber at the end, and you're like, fuck yeah, more movies coming, and then nothing.

SPEAKER_03 3:18

Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Dave Faloney and Same Whitware, they got together, they crafted this brain child, which is Maul's Shadow Lord, and it's just 10 episodes of brilliance because this comes at a time for Maul when he's at the very start of I'm gonna call it his third phase of life, where he's in this broken survivor.

SPEAKER_01 3:36

I'd almost say fourth. Because I reckon you don't see much of it, but I reckon it goes from being the apprentice of Sidious and being happy with himself and thinking he's hot shit to being a deranged half snake robot man with crazy horns.

SPEAKER_03 3:55

Yep, and spider legs.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

And spider legs, and and then after he gets rescued by Savage and sort of given normal legs, magic legs, his horns trims, that's when he and that's I think that's when he goes into his sort of fur uh third stage. Yeah, this is like his crime lord reawakening.

SPEAKER_04 4:16

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

And then this is his fourth fourth stage, which is probably like a just a almost an add-on to his third stage. It's like third stage kind of failed.

SPEAKER_00 4:26

Maybe the fourth time would be better.

Maul’s Phases From Clone Wars

SPEAKER_03 4:28

Yeah, well, this this is actually true because we meet Maul in this in the first episodes of Shadow Lord, where he's trying to rebuild his criminal syndicate. We know that from the Clone Wars, he sieged upon Mandalore, he created Shadow Collective. The Shadow Collective in the Clone Wars as well. So he was at this height of power, he's used his his brain and his intellect and his cunning to really craft these important elements, and then the bane of his existence comes back and thwarts it all in terms of Darth Sidious, and then now he's back left with zero, and he's more vengeful than ever at the start because he's trying to get revenge on a lot of the other criminal underworld people that really didn't come to his aid during his time of need. So we're we're seeing Maul in this state of I've just thrown the toys out of the cot, and I am severely, severely angry with a lot of people, and I'm gonna take it out on anyone that I can find. And Sam Whitwer in lots of interviews has said, when asked the question, is Maul the good guy in this? He goes, definitely not. This show is about bad guys, and it's just the rate of bad guys that vary. So if Darth Vade is a 10 or Darth Sidious is a 10 on this scale, then Darth Maul is like at an 8.6, and you're kind of rooting for which bad guy is is going to come out the best. In terms of Star Wars timeline, this one fits after the Clone Wars, before Solo, and before Rebels. So we know that in Rebels he's very different as well, Brash, if you remember him in Rebels.

SPEAKER_01 5:50

Yeah, so one of my favorite iterations of him is in Rebels, besides a few episodes of Clone Wars that I well, a lot of episodes in Clone Wars that I absolutely just love to death, especially like the last season of Clone Wars, which I'm so glad they were like, because they weren't gonna do it. It was just gonna be over. And they're like, Yep, uh, we'll do the Siege of Mandalore. And it's like, yes.

SPEAKER_03 6:10

That's probably the one thing that well, there's multiple things Disney has done correct with Star Wars now, but that was one of one of the most significant, I believe.

SPEAKER_01 6:18

See my girl I'm Ahsoka and that sitting the season, because I've um because it wasn't canon, but I've I've got the book and I've got the audio book as well, because I like listening to it as well, because it's read by um Ashley Extin, who does the voice of Ahsoka. But the the book Ahsoka, right at the start, it has like a little start of the Mandalore siege and her facing off against uh Darthmall and then cuts to like a year later when she's pretending to be a ship mechanic and just floating by trying to escape from the uh hide from the Empire. And then that's when she meets Crow, which we'll talk about later on. But yeah, I was so excited when they did the siege of the Mandalore 4 Clone Wars, and then my second favourite sort of adaptation of him, besides now Maul, because just a show about Maul is just fucking amazing, is the Rebels version of Maul. When you see him, they just pretend to be just an old hermit just living on Malachor.

SPEAKER_03 7:12

Yeah, no, I think that um in this part of Maul's life, he's definitely way different to what we see him in Shadow Lord, and way different to what we had seen him before in Clone Wars. And I think it's primarily because he's he's come to this crazed end-of-life phase where he is he's obviously beaten and broken down, he's lost everything, and the only thing that's kind of driven him along is this vengeance and revenge to the point where he he's almost on a personal mission at this point. Whereas I know that in obviously Maul's Shadow Lord and the iterations beforehand, Maul has about ten moving pieces in the background, it seems like, at any given moment. Whereas when we meet him in Rebels, it seems like the only thing that he has focused on is that one man that's plagued his existence from the moment that he has been cut in half by him, and that is Obi-Wan Kenobi. So he's definitely driven to that that very disastrous end in his seeking of vengeance, and he ends up finding Obi-Wan, and we'll talk about the ending to that a little bit later because I think it's very poignant to talk about Maul's realization in that moment.

SPEAKER_01 8:15

But if I think me and you have different takes on that.

Trauma Memory And The Empire Scale

SPEAKER_03 8:17

Yeah, I think we do too, and we'll we'll explore that in a in a moment too. And with Maul Shadow Lord, I think that him being in this phase of vengeance and looking for vengeance upon the crime lords is a very relatable place for us to jump in. And I think it was very smart of the two creators of this show, Dave Feloni specifically, to put us into this place because I know that there is a lot of uh a lot of things up in the air, I guess you could say, for Maul at the end of Clone Wars, especially with the Siege of Mandalore, and then after his syndicate had been destroyed, and Sidious had once again discarded him and then let him live, which appeared to be mercy, but in fact it was just to prolong his suffering. And he actually says in the show, Sidious says to Maul, I have other uses for you. So, and the key word there is uses, because we know that Sidious has a grand plan to the point where he's used Maul pretty much all along as a blunt instrument. We know in the Phantom Menace he's that's literally all his character was. It was developed to sell toys and to initiate the the arc of Anakin Skywalker by killing his designated mentor in Qui-Gon Jin. So he he is a catalyst in that way as well at the beginning of his journey with us. And I think that Sidious, it's interesting to look at the other side of the coin in this one specifically in Maul Shadow Lord, because we get to see the impact of a life led that way, in the way that Sidious had discarded him and used him for all of these violent acts, and he's been indoctrinated and groomed in a way by the dark side. And we kind of start to see a little bit of humanity in Maul Shadow Lord. And I think because I know the character of Maul a little bit well, I never really was sold by it to the point where I was like, oh, he's turning into a good guy. It was more like I felt like Maul was almost not forgiving himself, but giving himself a little bit of grace for the savages that he had gone through as a child at the hands of Sidious. What do you think about the emotional sort of elements of this series, Brash, where Maul is seen to almost interact with his younger self when he's in a dazed state?

SPEAKER_01 10:22

And I think like that was probably one of my favourite episodes too, where you got to see a little bit of the backstory of what happens. You sort of got groomed at the start and taken away, and uh Savage was there saying, No, don't go, um, and then yelling out to saying what have you done to him? Like as like because Savage could see that like some sort of blind fuckery being going on. It it kind of reminds me, because how do you said before when people were asking, Oh, is he the good guy in this? It reminds me sort of like the penguin where like the show the TV show the penguin was like you sort of you're rooting for the penguin because besides him, there are other things to also boo about. And I think for the Maul show, for Maul, it's the Empire.

SPEAKER_04 11:04

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

So you hate the Empire more than you hate Maul. So in that you sort of feel bad for him. So like in the recent episodes where he's pretty much lost his entire group, like all his all his team.

SPEAKER_03 11:16

Yeah, the two Dathyrians fall, and then also his ally from the Siege of Mandalore, Rook Cast, in one of the final episodes meets her untimely and very very cycle. I I think for me it was the sound accompanying that one because I know that Vanessa Marshall, who voices Rook Cast, apparently she was asked by the show's creators how she wanted her character to to meet her end, and she she said that she was told that this was gonna happen, and she said, I want her lungs to be ripped out of her throat by the force. And then apparently that's the sound that they kind of tried to emulate there. With obviously Darth Vader being one of a like a very powerful Sith Lord being able to do things like that. But yeah, more as you were saying, Maul loses all of his companionship, all of this rivalry, or not rivalry, sorry, alliances that he's built up in this space, and then you kind of see him fall back into survival mode in those last few episodes as well, just as you were saying, how we kind of start to believe that he may or may not have turned a corner here. He's definitely gotten a soft spot for for Devon, which seems to be a theme with Maul as well, carrying on through to Rebels with Ezra Bridger.

SPEAKER_02 12:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:25

We might talk about that a bit later too. But he you sort of think, oh, maybe, maybe he's gonna let someone in, maybe he's gonna connect here. And I and I think this is coming from a place where you know that he feels remorse and some regret over how he treated Savage, his brother, when he was alive, and he's always seeming to like reach out for that connection. And I think that's what draws the audience in, whether it's going to be this moment or this person that makes him soft. But then in the end, in that last episode, where he knows he wants Devon to use her anger and aggression because it's a tactic that that Vader isn't used to being trained in the arts, he's very manipulative in that situation, Brash, to get his means to an end.

SPEAKER_01 13:03

Because sort of sort, like you can see him sort of softening up because every time one of his like henchmen were like died one by one, you sort of like he witnessed all of them in their deaths. So first he got saved by one of the brothers and who just died by that and got forced pushed out of the cave and fell and then other brothers saw as well and also got really angry. But then I did notice when Rook died. I wish they had have put a bit more emphasis on his facial expressions. And that's one thing I did notice when I when I saw I'm like because I was specifically looking at Maul after she got dragged away. But then but then it showed like the group again, and Maul was sort of just blank faced. And I'm like, uh I thought I'd like see some sort of anger or something well up in him, but it sort of didn't nothing because when the robot got slashed, when his robot spy bot spy bot, spybot got slashed, he's like he was like, That's very true.

SPEAKER_00 13:59

That's very true. Like he was fully like he was like, oh no, it's by bot.

SPEAKER_03 14:03

You know what I think that's about? I think that's because he he obviously yearns for that connection of any kind, but he always expects people to betray him. So he puts up these walls with people, but then when you're talking about spybot or things like that, he's very he's almost like patting that thing too. He's very affectionate towards that because robots and automatons are subservient to to people. So I think he's safe in his connection with spybot to the point where he's obedient, he's not gonna betray him, he's gonna do everything.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

But even the second brother who tackles the stormtroopers into the acid and dies, and he sort of looks over and he's like, and he even then he's sort of like, I'm losing everyone. Like you can sort of see it on his face, and then that's when he's like, Oh, we gotta get the fuck out of here. I've just lost everyone. Maybe because he's like lost those people when she gets lost. That's like he's gone through all these motions, and then finally, like the final now on the coff coffin was Rook, and at that point he was just like, Yeah, I think he was well and truly in survival mode at that point. Yeah, like he's like, That's it, that's that's all my besides that little blue fish man.

SPEAKER_03 15:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:05

Uh yeah, now it's just me, so now it's time to lock in.

Devin As The Audience Mirror

SPEAKER_03 15:08

I think behaviorally it's very interesting as well to see that that's what he falls back on all the time because it it definitely to me shows a past of definite trauma, which we know that Maul has, for him to then fall into a disconnection as as a primary means of survival, to the point where you know when Master Iku Dio Daki is facing Lord Vader as well as Maul, he kind of backs off from that confrontation and lets Vader do his thing. Daky obviously losing his life, but Maul kind of uses that as a moment to attach himself to Devin as well, which you know, season two may be coming along depending on the or concurrent to the ending of this show. And I think they've actually green-lit a season two at time of recording. I'm interested to see how that fallout will occur if it is found out by Devin that it obviously led to her death. And you know that Devin is not in Maul's life when he is a part of Rebel, so there is something that leads Maul to to become devastated once again and lose all hope, become this old crazed hermit that is fully committed to revenge on Kenobi. So perhaps that's it. Perhaps it's him reaching out and forming a connection with Devin and then losing that once again.

SPEAKER_01 16:23

Yeah, and I I think a lot of people are wondering if if she's gonna be like Devin's gonna be the Darth Talon.

SPEAKER_03 16:29

Yes, and I've heard she she's not, yeah, I was gonna say she's not canon at the moment, Darth Talon. Is she connected to Maul in the Legends timeline? No, she was.

SPEAKER_01 16:36

So No, she was Talon was trained by Darth Maul, but I believe if memory serves, she gets frozen in Carbonite and is awakened like a thousand years in the future.

SPEAKER_04 16:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 16:49

And that's that's where her I think her new story, like her full story comes about, is her in the future.

SPEAKER_04 16:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

But yeah, but she Darth Talon, I believe, was initially trained trained by Darth Maul as an apprentice, and then but is yeah, frozen carbonite and is then awoken.

SPEAKER_03 17:08

Yeah. I think it's a it's very much a good thing that they're leaning on some of the well-liked legend storylines and pulling them into the the canon of Star Wars now, because I know how she doesn't have to be Darth Talon. No, but I think people make that connection and then that character already has some audience favor. But I think Dave Falone's smart to do that because we know that there was a very well-liked sequel trilogy after the original Star Wars movie that included Thrawn. And because these movies deviated away from that, most people felt like that there was a superior trilogy out there and source material wasn't respected where it probably could have been. So I think it's very good that they're actually leaning into the Darth Talon thing. But I think it's very interesting about the character of Maul as well, and talking back to how audiences seem to relate to him, even though we know he's kind of an evil character and he disconnects from everything. I I think it it's very interesting to note, and Sam Whitwear said this in an interview as well, that one of the main characters that inspired Darth Maul was Khan from Star Trek, to the point where Khan is so calculating, but if you look at his point of view from his perspective, you kind of sit there and go, you know what? Not wrong. Justifying the means to the end. He's not really wrong. And when we're, as you said before, Sidious and the Empire is taking over the galaxy. This is set during a time of upheaval when the empire is trying to gain a foothold. Maul, just like everybody else on the planet of Janix, is trying to either escape the Empire, avoid it, or survive underneath it. So you're rooting for those characters, those ones that are trying to escape over the empire, is this supremely oppressive force. So the the lengths that Maul goes to as a result of that, to actually complete his goal, you're kind of like, oh, okay, I'm willing to let a few things slide here in terms of his deviousness, because I know that the things he's up against are a lot more evil. And that's a very smart place to play a character, which I liked as well.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

Yeah, I and I think I think if if you look back at it, if Devin is the audience, we're all looking at this show, we're looking at Maul, but slowly we're sort of like, you know what? Maul's not actually that wrong. And it always but it always falls, it's always it's like it's like temptation, it's like the dark side sort of tempting tempting you because they do it in a lot of the other shows and movies as well, where they have like in Star Wars, where they have like the master, and he's always like, Oh no, we need patience, we need quiet, we need blah blah. And then always something goes wrong and the Jedi loses, and then and you're like, Well, if they hadn't acted, if they hadn't been more aggressive, they could have probably won that. And that's sort of like what Wall's teasing Devon with. So, like when they're trying to escape the city, and there's the guy like all the stormtrooper stationed there with the walker. And great scene. Yeah, great thing. And uh Master Ducky's like, we'll be doing patience, they'll move on. And more's like, nah, fuck this, walks out and just starts like dragging his uh lightsaber in the ground and just starts messing with move, cut cuts through the leg of the uh the ATST and then and then just throws his lightsaber and cuts off the back of it, keeps walking forward, killing everyone else as it falls over and explodes. Like, yeah, because cool guys don't look at explosions as you make the they just keep going forward, but like and then but then you see Devin sort of looking at it and like sort of half grinning, like, man, that like we could be sitting with that power. Yeah, we we could just be we could have been sitting here for ages waiting for these guys to leave, but more we'll jam their comms, took them all out, and now we can move on, and then that's you know, sort of like Marthaki sort of looking at Devon going, uh oh, I think I'm showing the loser.

Temptation Versus Jedi Patience

SPEAKER_03 20:45

I think I think it's that internal battle of immediate gratification over long-term reward because obviously the Jedi live a more peaceful and fruitful life, uh, and and Sith Lords always meet an untimely end of some kind. And and that's kind of summed up when you look at Obi-Wan and you look at Darthmall as well. Obi-Wan wasn't the perfect Jedi, but he obviously tried to follow the doctrines as best he can. He's a character who let go of a lot of regret and a lot of grief, you could say as well. And Darthmall is a character who definitely held on to it and let hate fester and vengeance brew. And you see in their final confrontation in Rebels, Obi-Wan presents himself as a Jedi master who is much more stoic and within himself than Maul does. Maul's very erratic, he is very crazed at this point, and he comes into the jewel thinking that he's meeting this washed-up desert rat, and Obi-Wan is there. Not I wouldn't say at peace, but he's definitely on the journey. And I think that's the thing that Devin kind of misses because she sees that immediate result and and Darkie with his vision of what the force can be and the peace that he's obviously found through following it. The vision of the force is good in theory, you know, but it's all the things. That they kind of press upon you that a lot of younger Jedi seem to graze against, especially when it comes to what some people say is suppressing emotion, but others could say is letting go or indifference towards things that may harm or bother us. Because it's a very interesting dynamic. But yeah, I think that it's definitely seductive, as you said, especially for a character like Devin. When you're in a survival situation like that, and as it came towards the end, she is a character who longs for connection as well, you can see, but she's tempted by something that Maul is offering. And we talked a little bit before about how Maul seems to always reach his hand out for connection, to the point where in the end of the clone wars during the Siege of Mandalore, he learnt that Anakin was obviously going to be the new apprentice of Sidious. He felt a particular way about that. And when Ahsoka came to the planet instead of Anakin, the first thing he did, he didn't fight her, he offered her a hand in alliance. And I think when that was refused, maybe a little rejection sensitivity occurred. But that's a pattern that keeps happening to Maul as well. So obviously, Devin being the second attempt, and then Ezra later on in his life will be the third, for him to try and get that apprentice. And in Rebels, he even continues to say and refer to Ezra as his apprentice. So he really wants this apprentice, he really wants this companionship. But I feel like he's just too damaged to really know what that is because the only connection he really had was with his brother and with his mother, who was Mother Talzin, I think her name was, of the Night Sisters. And he was ripped away from them very early, so he had to learn to detach, and from then it created a pattern that stayed with him for the rest of his life. But he's definitely a character that wants to connect and possibly doesn't even know how because it's never been modeled for him, he's never been shown it. Sidious has taught him everything that he knows to the point where his worldview is skewed towards what Sidious is. And Maul Shadow Lord is a show about him slowly realizing, or already on the path to realizing, that Sidious is a character that's done him some harm, to the point not only physically discarding him, but like mentally fracturing him as well. And I think that's also a realization that Anakin and Vader comes to, but much later when he realizes obviously that that Luke is now in harm's way because of Sidious, and how quickly Sidious discarded Vader when he was trying to tempt Luke. Remember, he says, strike him down, join me as my new apprentice, and we'll rule the galaxy. Yeah, it's just some very, very mirroring events between Maul's life and Anakin's life as well, which I think is interesting.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Yeah, well, that's the rule. Rule of two. That's it. So there can't be three, even though there are several other bad Jedi around. I wouldn't really call them Siths, but yeah, other force users that are not so good around failing around red lightsabers.

SPEAKER_03 24:54

Well well, Maul subscribes to that rule of Maul subscribes to that rule of two in Clone Wars as well, because he takes Savage on as his apprentice and Maul being the master. And I think that he is still very much indoctrinated in that Sith belief there, but I think when we get to him now in Maul Shadow Lord, he's discarded that title of Darth. He knows he's just a dark sider now and not so much a Sith Lord. But but I think it's very interesting his transition from being fully indoctrinated and believing in Sidious's vision to then now seeing the impact of that empire that is now being created. And it's a lot darker than Maul thought it would be, and it's also a lot more dangerous than Maul thought it would be as well for him, but also for his syndicates and for any allies or anyone on planets that are on the wrong side of the empire.

SPEAKER_01 25:40

Sidious is why like teachings are so ingrained in him. Like, even though he drops the like he realistically now has dropped the Tarth, he's no longer a Sith Lord, he still follows the rule two. And like I think that's like one of the most telling things about like he how he can't let go of things. It has to prove himself. And I believe the reason why he keeps trying to get an apprentice is because Sidious did it. So Sidious got an apprentice, and it's meant he's meant to be the the Anakin, who's the greatest Jedi, greatest Sith Lord, strongest in the world in the galaxy, best ever. And um pretty much what it all was like, all right, Sidious, hold my beer. I'll find one too. I'll I'll get an apprentice just as good as yours, and I'll beat you at your own game.

SPEAKER_03 26:24

Maybe even better.

SPEAKER_01 26:24

Yeah, exactly. And as you try, he tries so hard to find, he's like tries so hard to find an apprentice to match and equal Sidious to have revenge on Sidious. Because but I mean also it's a smart thing, it's not like I Darth Maul can just walk, I don't like Maul can just walk into Sidious' chambers with him and Vader and just win.

SPEAKER_03 26:45

Yeah, well, well, he actually says that in Rebels, I believe. Darth Maul actually says I can't defeat Vader alone. And you know what? The last two episodes of Maul Shadow Lord show exactly what he means by that and where he got that information. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:01

This must be because it says set in the early days of Empire, but this must be year one or year two of the empire. Must be it must be, yeah. So it's 18, 18 BBY, 19 BBY was Order 66 executed. Yeah, so yeah, so this was this would be like the first two, second year of the Empire's reign.

SPEAKER_03 27:21

Yeah, as they're trying to get a stranglehold over the galaxy.

SPEAKER_01 27:24

Yeah, because Ahsoka, spoiler alert for anyone who doesn't know, uh, but it's in one of the other little shorts that they made kind of now too. Ahsoka kills Crow in her second year of being on the run.

SPEAKER_04 27:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:36

Second, second or third year of being on the run. Mm-hmm. Yeah, Crow doesn't make it too much longer after this.

SPEAKER_03 27:42

Yeah, well, it's interesting to talk about future prospects in terms of Maul as well, because we know Maul Shadow Lord occurs in 18 BBY, which for those that don't know Star Wars chronology, BBY is before Battle of Yavin, which is when Luke blew up the Death Star. But then when you look at when Solo happened, a Star Wars story, when we know that Maul is the underhanded leader of the Crimson Dawn, that happens at 10 BBY. So in a spawn of like eight or nine years, from the end of Maul's Shadow Lord, when he starts to make a deal with Dryden Voss to his appearance in Solo, he climbs the ranks of the Crimson Dawn to become their underhanded and shadow leader as well. So there's definitely some story to tell when it comes to Maul in that space and time. However, my question to you, Brash, and my wondering is I've watched this interview with Dave Falone where he says Maul's a very interesting character where there is not much that they have written in canon about him, so he's one that they can expand quite thoroughly with backstory, but they're very careful to do that because he feels like a lot of Maul's mystery and appeal comes from the fact that he is lurking in the shadows. There's not much known about him. If people understand and know his psyche to the nth degree, then he may not be as interesting as he was made popular for in the first place, because there is that evil and that that sort of discontent, you could say, about him as well. So I think they've got to walk a line that's very careful in this space, and I don't think they can fill every single gap, but I do like how Maul connected us to that last cameo appearance in Solo because when I watched Solo, I think that it was just a very it was the very definition of a cameo for me. Like Maul appearing there, I was like, what the heck is this? Like he's obviously appeared in Clone Wars, and we know he's alive, but becoming the leader of the Crimson Dawn, okay, nothing's been said before that. So I think that people watching Solo now, seeing Maul appear at the end after watching Maul Shadow Lord will probably think of it a little bit more kindly or at least wonder towards how that connection occurred. But I really love knowing that obviously Dryden Voss has made a deal with Maul, and then now he's going to do some more dealings and various different underworld craziness in order to become the leader of the Crimson Dawn as well. So it's like he's building the tower back up again. It's not a shadow collective anymore. We now go by the Crimson Dawn.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Well, well, I think like for him, Arkansas can be quite Arcan's gonna be really easy because it's like Dryden asked him to like, hey, we'll rescue you if you kill the leader of the Crimson Dawn. He's like that, and he'd Arkin you'd do that and be like, all right, follow me now, or else I'll kill you too.

SPEAKER_04 30:21

Well, that's exactly what can you do?

SPEAKER_03 30:25

I know. It's like I mean, Dryden Voss is the plot device for the for this to occur, obviously, but in terms of him, he's kind of just unleashed the Rottweiler and then expects the Rottweiler not to turn around and bite bite him back. But uh it's it'll be interesting to see that power struggle and how the dynamic occurs because more definitely runs things from the shadows, it seems.

Season Two Hopes And Crimson Dawn

SPEAKER_01 30:47

Dryden is still the boss, but yes. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, but yeah, so I reckon I reckon straight up, I reckon straight almost straight away, more will be like, I will take over. But I think what they may do is have a period of like a few of those years between 18 Bby and 10 Bby where he may just go off and like train Devin.

SPEAKER_04 31:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

And when like they come, like when they come back, she's stronger. And I reckon as like with a lot of people who turn to the dark side, they have physical changes. If they are going to go down sort of like the Talon route, because how Devon is pink, it depends on when they want to do what they want to do for the second season, because now they've gone off. Yeah, so they could come back four years in the future.

SPEAKER_03 31:37

Well, we don't know what the story would be, it would be immediately after.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

That's what I mean.

SPEAKER_03 31:41

Which is the interesting part. We want more now.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

Yeah, but I I reckon the best bet for them is to just do a little bit of a time jump and come back when Devin is apprenticed by me. Is apprenticed and has been like has had a few years training, and then instead of because because you want to still keep the mystique of Darth Moore like do we want to sit through like years of like the like her doing her training from day dot to whenever I'd rather see her thing and then have like flashbacks, so like because it arc- That would be the way to go. I I'd I'd rather like the first vision I see of Devin again, like her, and if they want to sort of go the talent route, have her skin turn from the pink to more of the blood red from the changes from taking in the dark side, and like for Devin, it might be because she's so full of hate and revenge instead of her going pale or anything, like she's going red with just anger, and like it's sort of turning her skins from a pink to a red, and that's how uh she can then look the part of Dart Talon as Dart Talon was red with black stripes.

SPEAKER_03 32:49

Like that's that's the interesting part for me for season two of Maul Shadow Lord is that relationship that he's gonna have between Devon and Maul. And I think that that is going to be the linchpin and the key to to moving the story forward, and whatever happens around that will happen. But I really feel like we're now going to be looking at what happens when Maul actually does that thing that he's been searching for, where he's been trying to find that apprentice for so long, and then and then obviously he tries to reach out to Ezra Bridger after the fact. So you can see maybe he's pining for something that he may have lost with with Devin as well. But I agree, I think those physical changes are definitely something we would need to see. But I definitely feel like the flashbacks are something that would work well as as well. Like the first scene for me that I would want to see is Devin fighting in a completely like Maul-stylized way, aggressive, fast, and then perhaps during that fight that they're doing while she's fighting with Maul, you go to flashbacks of the training. Yeah. And it would be interesting to see whether Maul trains her with any form of compassion or trains her in the way that Sidious trained him, which was very torturous, which was very hard, and which was very unloving, I would say, and also probably unforgiving as well. So Maul, more definitely through some of the comic books that have been canonized. His training was arduous to say the least, and Sidious would enjoy teaching him lessons through his failure, which is a Jedi trait, but his failure would often leave him with some pretty severe and dire consequences as well. Just slipping back as well onto the similarities between Anakin and Darthmall, as we look at both of those characters of Anakin and Darthmall, you can see that both of them were taken at a young age as force-sensitive users, and they both had something to lose or to regret leaving. Like Anakin had his mother, Darthmall had his brother and his mother as well. So they're very similar in that way. So when they were actually trained, they were also yearning for connection, but then never being able to get it. You can also see that both of them, in terms of Vader later on and Maul in his early career, both of them had dealings with Obi-Wan Kenobi and basically like fell to Obi-Wan Kenobi in terms of Anakin falling and then turning into Darth Vader, and then Maul falling and being chopped in half. So they they lead a very similar life to the point where they were both also seduced by Sidious. And it's interesting to see that Maul sort of comes to the realization that Sidious is a villain and has seduced him halfway through clone wars and then through Maul Shadow Lord, and then definitely by the end of Rebels he has. But Vad really comes to that concluding at the end of Return of the Jedi. So they both travel on similar journeys. So it's very poignant for me to see that Sidious was definitely looking for that quote, chosen one or four sensitive, powerful young people that he could take on to the point where he's almost mirrored that experience for both of these two characters and Jedi. So yeah, I think Sidious is always 10 steps ahead in that way, and he definitely uses people as tools. And Maul is a character who has met that with regret, anger, and frustration.

SPEAKER_01 35:54

Yeah. And I do find it, I do find it interesting. If you notice when Sidious took Maul, usually when they take young things, so when you see Ahsoka again taken, she's like what, three, four?

SPEAKER_03 36:06

Yeah, yeah, that's right. And Obi-Wan also mentions in Kenobi that he was so young he remembers he may have had a brother.

SPEAKER_01 36:13

Yeah. And I bet you see, if you notice, like characters like Anakin, Paul, even like Ezra, they all a bit more susceptible to the darkness. Luke as well. Luke as well, yeah, definitely. Because of their age, they're they have have felt emotions without sort of the training to be able to like be able to pull themselves away from all the negative emotions that Jedi's are trained to do, as much as they're given a bad name for taking children when they're small and stunting their um emotions. It it seems to reason that like a lot of the more adult characters that come in and turn Jedi or more stage you went straight to the dark side, but the older like the older kids are usually the more ones susceptible to falling to the dark side because they they they have had years to have emotional attachments and growth and everything like that to be manipulated and twisted and turned, whereas all the younglings that come in are usually at such an age where yeah, as as you said, overwhelmed barely remembers that he had a brother, so but so there's no attachment there because I think I had a brother, maybe.

SPEAKER_03 37:29

So here's here's the thing that I think is funny to do toward the Jedi. So what I don't really like about the Jedi is they obviously take these kids in when they're really young. Yeah, they're still children. So they take these kids in when they're really young to the point where they're they're almost like indoctrinating them to think, feel, and act in the way that is in accordance with the Jedi code. But you know who else does that? The Sith. They take people and children and apprentices to enact their doctrine in terms of what they they think, feel, and do in terms of actions.

SPEAKER_01 38:00

Sith only take one.

SPEAKER_03 38:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:02

Whereas whereas whereas the Jedi takes scores of children away from their families, ripping them away from their lives to indoctrinating them into this cult.

SPEAKER_03 38:13

So it goes back to that point we were saying where you know how everybody's against Anakin because he like he turns and things like that. But if you look at it from a certain point of view, as they say in Star Wars, you can see how people could be turned against the Jedi because they do seem like the type to to go in and brainwash these these youths and train them into whatever they need them to be, to be soldiers, to do what what the will is.

SPEAKER_01 38:35

You can almost agree until you get to the part where it's there's too many of them.

SPEAKER_00 38:40

What are we going to do?

SPEAKER_03 38:41

No, don't, don't, don't. Yeah, but yeah. Okay, he's evil.

SPEAKER_00 38:47

Yeah. We could change him and turn him back. He's a bad guy.

SPEAKER_03 38:51

Yeah. No, I think that that's the interesting thing about the Jedi is because they have very similar characteristics to the Sith. But we talked before about how the Jedi are taught to like not suppress their emotions but control them in a way so they can go through these tumultuous times to help help themselves out. But the Sith are learned to lean into negative emotions to get them through that. So I think that's the primary difference there between the Jedi and the Sith. But when you're looking at like a teenager who's going through some very rough emotions and some some budding turbulence, you might say, with authority figures, telling them just to ignore it and to suppress it is probably the worst thing that you can do, and also very not very productive for when they feel those feelings later on. So that's like a parenting and a teaching strategy.

SPEAKER_01 39:35

This is where I believe, like, oh, the whole point of like episode three and like two into three is and Insidious even like says it to like makes windu, and I think he says to Anakin as well, how how like and even Maul says it, like Maul says it to Ahsoka. And she's like when she's like uh the Republic, it's already fallen. Don't you just you just haven't realized it yet. Like because uh the Jedi are so now high and mighty and think so highly of themselves, it's sort of lost on them what they think like like even like one of the worst, I recommend one of the worst Jedi, and people are gonna hate me for it and probably curse me out. Mace Windu is one of the worst Jedi ever. I mean they redeem him a little bit in Clone Wars, but in the movies like he is the opposite of what a Jedi should be. He's gone in because of the Clone Wars, he's gone from being probably like he probably was a good master and a good Jedi. The Clone Wars have messed up the Jedi so much that he's become so militaristic that he can't see past his own hype. Like he he the Jedi have now forgotten, and it's the thing that Qui-Gon um comes across. It's the thing that Dooku Dooku saw. Dooku saw that the Jedi were and it's it's not it wasn't because they're all turning bad or anything like that, it's just because they lean too heavily in the colour of their emotions. Where in Qui-Gon and even like Dooku were both like, no, they need the emotions, people need to feel. How can how can Jedi Claims be empathetic when they don't have empathy?

SPEAKER_03 41:22

Well, that's the thing as well. That exactly right. They're expected to go and serve others, but they're unable to feel sympathy or empathy for those others in order to put themselves in that situation and and find out what is best for those people that they're helping because they have been trained not to do that. Like in terms of Mace Windu, as you were saying, it's almost like what does the soldier do after the war is over? He's got all these skills and all these like different attributes that definitely served him, but then after the fact, it's like you kind of have to evolve with the times, and the Jedi are an old, old tradition that really sort of never moved forward. And then you get people like Dooku and Qui-Gon who poke their heads up like the the whack-a mole as being different, and then they're obviously shunned by that. Qui-gon never receiving a rank on the on the council, Dooku turning to the dark side, Anakin never being granted the rank of master.

SPEAKER_01 42:12

And the thing is just Dooku never really turned to the dark side either. So usually when someone falls to the dark side, like with Anakin, he falls completely to the dark side, yeah, and straight away his eyes change colour to the yellow, like you see it like all like that.

SPEAKER_03 42:25

Dooku's is a lot more calculated.

SPEAKER_01 42:26

Yeah, Dooku still has his normal eyes because he I don't think Dooku ever wanted the complete like fall of the Jedi that he just wanted to shake things up to try and show the Jedi, hey, you guys have lost touch. Look what's happening now because you guys are not being who you're meant to be. But the killing of Yadel was a bit rough.

Is Maul Overhyped Or Earned?

SPEAKER_03 42:51

Well, I think that when Dooku in the Clone Wars says, I wish Qui-Gon were alive to see this, I feel like he actually has some genuine regret and grief towards that. Obviously, Qui-Gon being Dooku's apprentice, which tells me that he's still obviously having that feeling of connection and that empathy, which is not what the Jedi teach. So I definitely think that there's there's some spaces within that Jedi order that cause a lot of the problems that they have, you could say. But yeah, we'll we'll dive a little bit more into like Jedi stuff and especially Qui-Gon Jin when we do our episode on the Phantom Menace, which is coming very, very soon. But diving back into Darth Maul, we have a couple of our threaders who has talked about the fact that is Maul overhyped or is he, you know, adequately hyped, you could say. We had a post on Threads that said, I remember seeing the other side of his lightsaber ignite at 11 years old, and I lost my prepubescent mind. That was my post. Which is absolutely true. But there is some other people in here, like we have Jay Kevin Parker, who says Maul has become an incredibly laid character. I'm here for it. As cool as he was in the Phantom Menace, he only had two short lines, no backstory, no motivation, no struggle, just a badass lapdog. But now, with all we've learned through the animated shows, it even informs Anakin's story quite a bit as we see how Sidious treats his apprentices. He goes on to say, and even the whole concept of the bad guy is more nuanced, just like how Andor and Rogue One showed us how difficult all the competing agendas on the good guy's side can be to coalesce into real change, which I think is what we've just been talking about in terms of the Jedi, changing their system to fit the people that they're actually serving now. We also have Macquarie's Bounty, who says that the hype is definitely deserved. In the Phantom Menace, he was one of the franchise best visual designs, but had no story. However, through the Clone Wars, Rebels, and now Shadow Lord, they've given him depth, character arc, and so many layers. And then we also had systematic geekology who said, nope, the perfect amount of hype. Just give me more, please. So I think that the consensus is that Moul is definitely not overhyped. He's a character that has so much layers to the point where we've now been talking about him in an episode of a podcast for quite some time. Yeah, I think that he's definitely deserved his spot in Star Wars fandom to the point where I think he's probably in my top three brash of favourite Star Wars characters. And he definitely didn't sit there before Shadow Lord, I will say.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

So he he I loved him in episode one and I loved seeing him in Clone Wars and everything, but I don't think it was until the Siege of Mandalore, where he sort of like back in the when I first saw Fenometus, he it was probably up in like my top three. Yeah. And then with all these other introductions, other characters and that came out through Clone Wars and all the other shows and movies, um he sort of fell down a bit. But I think for me it was the Siege of the Mandalore where he's can't like where he went back up to the end of the line, where he says when he calls Ahsoka a Jedi and he's like, I'm no Jedi, and yeah, like they're like tussle in their fight and their fight because it was and the one thing I love about the Clone Wars fight between Ahsoka and Darthmall is that that that was a actual fight that they mocap CGI'd over the top of MoCap, yeah, and they actually got Ray Park back to do to do it, yeah, to do it.

SPEAKER_03 46:17

So it was Maul actually fighting. So and you can see some of his moves as well, it's so great. Yeah, I think that like the team behind Maul is so good. Like you had Ray Ray Park as obviously the the martial artist, and then you had Sam Whitware as the voice in this series and also he is he is just perfect.

SPEAKER_01 46:33

I any anyone any anyone listening to this who hasn't seen it, go on YouTube and look up Sam Whitware and look up like Sam Whitware's Star Wars quiz. He does a whole bunch of Star Wars quiz with a bunch of um like other Star Wars nerds and even with Free Prince Jr. Um The Voice of Kanan. He does like these little trivia trivia games with them and stuff like that, and just the knowledge of this guy, just the absolute knowledge. And like the story, and there's everyone everyone who knows from Sam Whitware Aing must have seen the where he tells a story about how in Clone Wars Dave Faloney who was a master of Star Wars, and everyone like and he is like Dave Loney knows his shit. But Sam Whitworth even corrected him on um on one of the episodes where Aiken and Pad Mayor talking about meeting his mum. Yeah, like and Samuel was like, they've already met and he's yeah, they they had a dinner together on Hadoon when the Sandsong came through.

SPEAKER_04 47:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

Yeah, so like oh like yeah, sorry, check it, go out and check him out.

Rebels Death Scene And Final Meaning

SPEAKER_03 47:33

Like he's definitely great out watching him perform his vocals as well, watching him perform his vocals. Yeah, he's so into that role, but yeah. Alright, so our last thing that I wanted to talk to you about Brash in terms of Maul is his demise. We can't talk about a character without talking about the way that he's he's ended. And you know, I think it's very interesting to create a story where you know where the end point is for the character, and I think it's really good to see how he is in Maul Shadow Lord and then see how he is at the end. Obviously, this crazed person bent on revenge, fully committing back to his vengeful ways toward Kenobi because that's all that he has left at this point in in time, and then he finally meets him after a very long time of searching, and they they face each other one last time. So I think for me, that scene I initially thought was underwhelming. And now, having known a little bit about Maul's journey and seeing how he reacts to Kenobi and how Kenobi is, I feel like I appreciated it a lot more to the point where Sam Whitware has described the scene quite well in terms of of Ben Kenobi in the way that he faces him. So with the first time Ben Kenobi draws his weapon, he he goes into his regular pose where he holds the lights sword or lightsaber near his face and points towards Maul. And you see like a moment of of recognition where he's like, Oh no, I've tried this before. And then he goes into and what Sam Whitwear says is I'm now Ben Kenobi, and he holds the blade in front of him, which is how we see Alec Guinness fighting Darth Vader. And in the end, he's just like he plays the ultimate chess gambit move where he then moves into the Qui-Gon post. Yeah, and that draws Maul into the attack where he can then so it's not a flashy lightsaber jewel, it's almost a battle of minds. It's a move and then a counter move and then a counterplay. And Dave Faloni has said that he he didn't want it to be an elaborate lightsaber jewel for the end because he he'd done that in clone war in Phantom Menace, he'd done that in Clone Wars as well when they meet again. And I think that doing it this way was was so important, and then what happens after that is also just as significant.

SPEAKER_01 49:41

I I agree with everything, but I don't believe he went back to tattooing to take revenge. I think you think he went there knowing he was going to die. 100% okay 100. I think I think he went there to find peace.

SPEAKER_03 49:57

Yes. Okay, I can see why you're thinking with this.

SPEAKER_01 50:01

Because he's gone from Fan Menace, where he was the apprentice, had to go through some rigorous shit to become the apprentice of Sidious, and was like in a way, at one point almost succeeded because he killed Qui-Gon Jin. What an accomplishment.

SPEAKER_00 50:18

Wapped him up. And then and then he's like, What's accomplished? He's like, hell yeah. And then I have Pete. Here comes a little Obi-Wan Kenobi. He's still technically an apprentice, he still has his little rat tail. And then he's like, Look at this little pitchqueak, and then gets cut in half.

SPEAKER_03 50:34

Underestimated, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 50:35

Ha, maybe maybe I'm not that good. And then he sort of goes a bit crazy, and then brother finds him, and then Cills his brother, discards him again, and and he just keeps just rage just keeps building and building and building, and he keeps see this has a new apprentice. I gotta get an apprentice. That apprentice didn't work. I need that apprentice. That apprentice this apprentice surely worked. That apprentice didn't work, and it just gets to a point where he keeps he keeps building up and he just keeps failing and building up and keeps failing, and he just keeps at to a point where I think he's just like and I this is what I think he gets to a point at the end of Rebels where again he's failed to do what he wanted to do, and I think he's like to a point where like my whole life has just been nothing but failure and struggle. It should have probably ended Nabu. So he's like full circle moment goes back to Obi-Wan, the person like the person who probably should have killed him. He can't even he bisected him, he should have been dead.

SPEAKER_04 51:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 51:32

I think the whole thing was he's like, no, I this has to end where it probably should have ended all those years ago and that's meets back up with Obi-Wan for their final just quick one flick and done Lysample Jewel where he falls into Obi-Wan's arms, and at that moment he's just like that's it.

SPEAKER_03 51:55

Peace. I yeah, I agree because the look on his face when that occurs on Maul's face. So when when Maul dies, the look on his face is definitely one of peace. You can see that he's fallen from this this life of suffering. He hatred is he's just let it all go. The hatred seeps away to the point where I think Obi-Wan Kenobi is the longest relationship that Darth Maul has ever had. He's the last living person that has known him for pretty much most of his life, and he goes and finds him and and lies with him as he dies. And Obi-Wan in that moment also looks to him and doesn't see a rival.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

He's let go of all of this, and Maul, I feel like, is and lets go of any sort of hate, like any sort of negative feelings he had towards him for killing his master, which he was a bit broken up about. And Satine as well, and yeah, and Satine. Shit.

SPEAKER_04 52:45

Yeah, dude, dude.

SPEAKER_01 52:46

Like that's what I mean. He's he's let go. Dude, dude's mess with that thing, and they at this moment they're both just like we are both old and we're both done.

SPEAKER_03 52:55

They're both yeah, and they're victims of the same system, too. Because the Jedi failed Obi-Wan just as much as what Darth Moore believed and what Moore believed in failed him in terms of Sidious. They were both duped by the same guy.

SPEAKER_01 53:07

And if if you realistically, the next time you see Obi-Wan, the next fight he gets into is the same thing where he with Vader. With Vader, and he In a New Hope, yeah. Let's go easy to dies. Like, just like Maul, he's like just like Maul, I think Maul's like, I can't fight anymore. I'm done. I think Obi-Bon's the same, he's like, We have Luke now. I uh I can't help him like this. I can help him by what Qui-Gon taught him being a force ghost.

SPEAKER_03 53:39

Yeah, and and guiding him in that way, being anywhere he's gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 53:42

Or with him, yeah, with him at all times.

SPEAKER_03 53:44

The beautiful part about Obi-Wan's death in A New Hope was the last thing that he saw as he died was Luke and Leia back together. And he Alec Guinness gets this this knowing smile. Yeah, and and then he obviously succumbs to Vader's blade. But it's interesting to see that that was obviously filmed concurrently or or apart from the Kenobi series where he had a lot to do with Leia's childhood, and he's obviously always looked over Luke. So I think that that was really well done and intentional in the way that they did that. And it's really beautiful to know that Obi-Wan almost thought in that moment, I can help him in in other ways, but he's gonna be okay now because Anakin's children are together, and I loved that as well. But in terms of Darthmall, I think that when he he looks into Obi-Wan's eyes and he says those words, is it the chosen one? And Obi-Wan says yes, and he goes, He will avenge us. And he says us as if like Obi-Wan and Darth Maul are a unit, he will avenge us because he will bring balance to the force by providing that vengeance or providing that closure to the battle and the struggle that both of them have gone through their entire life.

SPEAKER_01 54:52

So and realistically, besides like like Ahsoka and a few other scragglers that have appeared randomly, like in the original series, that's pretty much it. All the Jedi and Sith from the past, all gone. And now and now it's just Luke. So like the slate's like pretty much white clean.

SPEAKER_02 55:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 55:11

And you can sort of think of like um at the time, like Ezra is in a different like dimension universe.

SPEAKER_03 55:18

Yeah, he's in the place between worlds or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 55:21

No, no, no. Uh he he gets he takes the space whales and takes thrawn. Yeah, that's right. And pisses off into some other galaxy far, far, far away from Star Wars galaxy into like another galaxy. And and then Ahsoka, you can't really count her as Jedi because she's not really a Jedi. She was never knighted, and she like she never finished her training, she was never knighted, and she doesn't call herself a Jedi. What you call it, grey, but who will call Grey Jedi, who's like just someone who doesn't isn't trained in the arts of the force but doesn't subscribe to their doctrine. Exactly. And there realistically, there's no really like can't uh Kanan ends up dying before like at like before like while beautiful jazz. I know that that I I sometimes still go back and watch that just that that scene.

SPEAKER_03 56:07

Have you watched something you know that Star Wars soundtrack that Star Wars soundtrack with the uh M83 song?

SPEAKER_01 56:14

Yeah, the outro or intro or whatever it is from M83.

SPEAKER_04 56:18

Yep. God, that's good.

SPEAKER_01 56:20

Yeah, try I've tried I actually I'm gonna have a look in and see if they've someone's done it. But like I I've been wanting to get that Star Wars M83 mashup on my Spotify. But yeah, um yeah, it's absolutely beautiful scene, and uh it's just everything, like everything, like keeping the fire at bay to then pushing Hera back so she doesn't get caught up in it, and then and then just as he's about to let go, as he's pushing away, the force gives him back his sight again so he can look at Hera one more time. Anyway, it's gonna start making me emotional soon. Man, oh Star Wars.

SPEAKER_03 56:57

But that's but yeah, no we should do a video on we should we should curate our top five Star Wars moments and go through them and just see if we can make each other cry.

SPEAKER_01 57:06

That no, that'd be easy because I'm already starting to bitch you up.

SPEAKER_03 57:09

Um, that's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 57:11

Yeah, no, there there are like in they're in all things, there are always beautiful things in everything. I agree everything, but yes, no, that's it.

SPEAKER_03 57:20

Even in someone as villainous as Darth Maul, yeah with black, black and red heart. Well, no, we love him.

SPEAKER_00 57:25

One of the things I was I was sort of like, oh Dan, it was when spybot died and the look on Darth Maul's face with Spybox and I was like, holy shit! It's like it's like someone just killed someone just like killed his puppy. Yeah, and then he went all John Wick.

SPEAKER_03 57:39

Yeah. Have you seen those pictures where it puts Spybot and Andor's robot side by side and they have like the same faceplate? Yeah, K2SO.

SPEAKER_01 57:48

Yeah, K2SO.

Wrap Up And Where To Find Us

SPEAKER_03 57:49

Yeah, interesting. Well, uh I yeah, all right. That is it for this episode of the Phantom Portals podcast. Thank you guys so much for joining us as we covered Star Wars Maul Shadow Lord. What a great show. If you haven't checked it out and you're not deterred by all the spoilers, definitely go and check it out. It's peak Star Wars, which is what we love to see. Our next episode coming out, we're gonna be doing Star Wars for a little bit. We're gonna do one on the Phantom Menace. So definitely check that out as well in the show notes. It will be there for you, ready to go. Make sure you also share us on socials. If you want to get into the conversation with us, we post a lot of stuff on threads, a lot of stuff on Instagram, and we read them out on our podcast on our YouTube. So if you have an opinion and you want it heard, definitely come and check us out. This has been Aaron. Keep learning, keep growing, keep loving fandoms and film, guys. At last we reveal ourselves to the Jedi. At last we will have our revenge.

SPEAKER_00 58:41

Goodbye. Revenge!

SPEAKER_03 58:42

Goodbye.