Aug. 5, 2025

Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio (2022) The Power of Unconditional Love and the Magic of Stop-Motion Animation with Tia Jackson

Summary Aaron and guest Tia Jackson delve into Guillermo del Toro's 2022 adaptation of Pinocchio. They explore the themes of grief, love, and acceptance, particularly through the character of Geppetto, who grapples with the loss of his son. The conversation also highlights the unique animation style and the emotional depth of the characters, including Sebastian J. Cricket, who serves as a moral compass. The discussion culminates in reflections on the film's rich storytelling and its explorati...

Summary
Aaron and guest Tia Jackson delve into Guillermo del Toro's 2022 adaptation of Pinocchio. They explore the themes of grief, love, and acceptance, particularly through the character of Geppetto, who grapples with the loss of his son. The conversation also highlights the unique animation style and the emotional depth of the characters, including Sebastian J. Cricket, who serves as a moral compass. The discussion culminates in reflections on the film's rich storytelling and its exploration of individuality, unconditional love, neurodivergence and acceptance.

Guest: Tia Jackson

Podcast: The Alien Effect Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-alien-effect/id1753337509

Takeaways

The podcast celebrates the joy of fandoms and personal obsessions.
Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio is a dark retelling that explores deep themes.
Geppetto's character is a complex portrayal of grief and growth.
The animation style is a labor of love, showcasing intricate details.
Sebastian J. Cricket serves as both a conscience and a character with depth.
The film explores the idea of unconditional love versus conditional love.
Pinocchio's journey reflects the struggle for acceptance and individuality.
The film's themes resonate with neurodivergent experiences.
The exploration of life, death, and purpose is central to the narrative.
The film's rich storytelling allows for multiple interpretations and insights.

Chapters
00:00 Introduction to Fandoms and Podcasts
03:57 Exploring Guillermo del Toro's Pinocchio
15:51 Character Analysis: Geppetto's Grief and Growth
22:59 The Role of Sebastian J. Cricket
33:52 Themes of Love, Loss, and Acceptance
40:45 Final Thoughts and Takeaways

Soundbites

"Childhood loves will stay with you, and childhood fears definitely do." - Tia Jackson

"Uniqueness isn't a flaw to be corrected, but a truth to be embraced." - Aaron Davies

Apple Tags

Pinocchio, Guillermo del Toro, stop motion animation, fandom, neurodivergence, childhood fears, identity, grief, acceptance, The Alien Effect podcast, Tia Jackson, storytelling, film analysis, creativity, emotional journey

Contact Us:
Website: https://www.fandomportalspodcast.com/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@FandomPortals

Instagram: instagram.com/fandomportals/?locale=en
Threads: threads.net/@fandomportals
Email: fandomportals@gmail.com
Letterboxd: https://letterboxd.com/fandomportals

00:00 - Introduction to Tia Jackson

04:40 - Historical Pinocchio Fear Memories

09:36 - Stop Motion Animation Mastery

16:15 - Geppetto's Grief and Growth

22:52 - Pinocchio's Quest for Acceptance

30:41 - Life, Death, and What Matters

41:36 - Future Episodes and Sign-off

WEBVTT

00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:00.561
Hi everyone.

00:00:00.561 --> 00:00:06.193
On this episode of the Phantom Portals podcast, I spoke to Tia Jackson from the Alien Effect podcast.

00:00:06.193 --> 00:00:08.444
She was a really wonderful guest to have on.

00:00:08.444 --> 00:00:13.993
We had a beautiful discussion about Pinocchio from 2022 that was directed by Guillermo del Toro.

00:00:13.993 --> 00:00:20.253
In this episode, we looked at Geppetto's complex character and how he suffered through grief, but also growth.

00:00:20.253 --> 00:00:31.704
We also looked at how the film explores unconditional love versus conditional love and, lastly, we looked at how Pinocchio's journey sometimes resonates with some neurodivergent experiences as well.

00:00:31.704 --> 00:00:36.299
So make sure you go and check out Tia Jackson's podcast, the Alien Effect Podcast.

00:00:36.299 --> 00:00:41.344
The link to that will be in the show notes below, guys, and we hope you enjoy this discussion.

00:00:41.344 --> 00:01:00.805
Welcome to the Fandom Portals podcast, the show that explores how fandoms can help us learn and grow.

00:01:00.805 --> 00:01:02.570
Today, I'm joined by a very special guest.

00:01:02.570 --> 00:01:04.903
Her name is Tia Jackson and she is the producer of the Alien Effect podcast.

00:01:04.903 --> 00:01:05.105
Very special guest.

00:01:05.105 --> 00:01:07.876
Her name is Tia Jackson and she is the producer of the Alien Effect podcast.

00:01:07.876 --> 00:01:08.697
How are you going today, Tia?

00:01:09.721 --> 00:01:11.126
Yeah, good, thank you, producer.

00:01:11.126 --> 00:01:11.948
Sounds so fancy.

00:01:12.680 --> 00:01:15.668
I put it on the end of all of my emails so I sound really professional.

00:01:16.329 --> 00:01:16.671
I love it.

00:01:17.200 --> 00:01:19.989
But if you record and if you edit your own podcast, you're technically a producer.

00:01:20.560 --> 00:01:21.262
This is true.

00:01:21.262 --> 00:01:21.862
This is true.

00:01:22.022 --> 00:01:23.325
So, yeah, thank you so much for joining me.

00:01:23.325 --> 00:01:23.564
Today.

00:01:23.564 --> 00:01:26.870
We're here to talk about the movie Pinocchio, made in 2022.

00:01:26.870 --> 00:01:29.055
It was directed by Guillermo del Toro.

00:01:29.055 --> 00:01:35.457
There was also another one brought out in 2022, directed by Robert Zemeckis, which was the Disney one, which I think they did to compete.

00:01:35.457 --> 00:01:42.867
But before we get into that, tia, did you want to tell us a little bit about your podcast, the Alien Effect, how it began, why you started it, that kind of thing.

00:01:43.027 --> 00:01:47.712
Yeah, sure, so it's something I'd been meaning to start for years, but last year I finally got around to it.

00:01:47.712 --> 00:01:49.253
So it's called the Alien Effect.

00:01:49.253 --> 00:01:57.106
But my whole sort of gimmick is that it's actually nothing to do with aliens, but rather it's about that feeling you get when you love something so much.

00:01:57.106 --> 00:02:00.626
You think the feeling might burst out of your chest, like in the film Alien.

00:02:00.626 --> 00:02:10.653
So I'm all DHD, so autistic and ADHD, and it's a feeling I get quite frequently when I'm obsessed with different fandoms and different pieces of entertainment.

00:02:10.674 --> 00:02:14.728
So that was always how I'd sort of explain how excited I got about something.

00:02:14.728 --> 00:02:22.322
And so, yeah, I wanted to start a podcast to celebrate that and to share that with other people and hear what they're obsessed with as well.

00:02:22.322 --> 00:02:30.043
And the name also worked, because I often feel like a little alien in a human suit, which I know is quite common for neurodivergent people as an experience.

00:02:30.043 --> 00:02:33.556
And, yeah, I have a guest on each episode.

00:02:33.556 --> 00:02:38.147
They tell me about the things they're obsessed with and they can recommend me something as well.

00:02:38.147 --> 00:02:40.293
And yeah, it's just really fun.

00:02:40.293 --> 00:02:43.349
It's just basically geeking out about whatever people want to talk about.

00:02:49.379 --> 00:02:50.102
Yeah, I can definitely relate.

00:02:50.102 --> 00:02:54.092
As we talked about before, I'm neurodivergent as well ADHD so I relate strongly to the feeling of just getting really fixated on something in particular.

00:02:54.092 --> 00:03:00.122
That's part of the reason why I started the Fandom Portals podcast, because I had all this knowledge and nowhere to put it, and so somebody wants to listen to it, surely.

00:03:00.122 --> 00:03:04.866
So yeah, I kind of deep dive infrequently, but the topic changes all the time.

00:03:04.866 --> 00:03:17.455
So, you know, film and TV, kind of fandoms media is where it usually finds itself, and the podcasting platform that we're on here kind of lends itself perfectly to that kind of deep dive and that kind of, you know, big obsession.

00:03:17.455 --> 00:03:19.697
But yeah, I can definitely relate.

00:03:19.977 --> 00:03:23.141
Yeah, no, and I love your podcast as well.

00:03:23.141 --> 00:03:28.687
Like you said, it's a great space to be able to just geek out and share those obsessions with people.

00:03:28.687 --> 00:03:33.250
It's really fun and you tend to find your people in this community.

00:03:33.290 --> 00:03:33.631
That's it.

00:03:33.631 --> 00:03:37.186
Yeah, I've actually found the community pretty welcoming, especially on Threads.

00:03:37.186 --> 00:03:42.627
Threads is probably one of the better places to find community and get engagement and things like that.

00:03:42.627 --> 00:03:44.241
It's a little bit more genuine.

00:03:44.241 --> 00:03:52.739
I've done the Reddit thing here and there, but that's like 60, 40% toxic to non-toxic, so in the, in the, in the bad end of the ratio.

00:03:52.739 --> 00:03:58.806
So there's a lot of people on there that just want to say their opinions in a nasty way and I'm sort of leaning against away from that.

00:03:58.847 --> 00:04:05.983
But but yeah, thread seems to be going okay.

00:04:05.983 --> 00:04:10.580
It's good so far and I think it has been an adjustment for a lot of the community since twitter went up in flames, because I think that was a big platform for people to connect.

00:04:10.580 --> 00:04:15.376
So it's nice that fred's is going well so far so far, so good.

00:04:15.436 --> 00:04:17.663
So thanks for your compliment on the podcast as well.

00:04:17.663 --> 00:04:18.363
I really like yours.

00:04:18.363 --> 00:04:33.904
You recently had a guest on m from verbal diorama, so I'll put the link in the show notes to that episode for our people to go and check that out, because you guys had a really great discussion just geeking out about, you know, the, the mummy and all different kinds of stuff like that, but you also talked a little bit about podcasting as well through that.

00:04:33.904 --> 00:04:36.978
So, yeah, you have some really great guests on your show and I'm thank you.

00:04:36.978 --> 00:04:39.824
Yeah, I'm a big fan, so good to have you on lovely.

00:04:40.064 --> 00:04:40.704
All right, let's dive in.

00:04:40.704 --> 00:04:40.865
Hey.

00:04:40.865 --> 00:04:44.870
So this Pinocchio is a dark retelling of the classic tale.

00:04:44.870 --> 00:04:47.935
It's infused with themes of war, fatherhood, obedience and morality.

00:04:47.935 --> 00:04:51.170
It's stop motion, which is probably the best thing about it in my opinion.

00:04:51.170 --> 00:04:52.444
And the aesthetic is rich.

00:04:52.444 --> 00:04:53.785
It's visual design.

00:04:53.785 --> 00:05:00.192
It invites viewers to really reflect on identity, grief and what it means to be truly alive.

00:05:00.192 --> 00:05:09.103
So I'll flick to you, tia, what was your first impressions of this movie?

00:05:09.103 --> 00:05:09.646
Had you watched it before?

00:05:09.646 --> 00:05:10.348
What did you think of it after you?

00:05:10.367 --> 00:05:12.697
you watched it and kind of watch your history with Pinocchio as well, because it's a story that's been around forever.

00:05:12.697 --> 00:05:16.387
Yeah, so, um, I mean I didn't know it was a book first and foremost, until I was like looking into this film.

00:05:16.387 --> 00:05:20.504
But I was very familiar with the, the Disney version, the original Disney version.

00:05:20.504 --> 00:05:50.673
Obviously it was one of the VHS tapes that my nana and granddad had, so that's when we watched a lot when we were there and I remember really loving it but just having so much fear around it like childhood bit, like particularly monstro, which I'm sure we'll get more into later, but terrifying yeah, I'm actually gobsmacked because everyone in my entire life that hears that I have a terrible fear of whales to this day they treat me with so much shock.

00:05:51.134 --> 00:06:03.783
I've never met anyone that has the same reason for fearing that kind of thing until now, because literally Pinocchio is the reason why whales and deep ocean and things like that and massive sea creatures freak me out so much because of monstros.

00:06:03.783 --> 00:06:09.500
So I can completely relate and I can't believe that I've actually found somebody that feels that way too, because I'm the same Like.

00:06:09.500 --> 00:06:17.360
I watched the Pinocchio VHS as a child and even scenes in I think they called it Pleasure Island in the Disney version where they start turning into donkeys.

00:06:17.439 --> 00:06:18.766
So, creepy in the donkeys.

00:06:18.766 --> 00:06:20.244
Yeah, I love donkeys.

00:06:20.244 --> 00:06:23.125
Now, they're one of my favorite animals, you know, as are.

00:06:23.125 --> 00:06:28.293
I'm sorry to like break your heart on this one, but I do love whales, but I'm still scared of monstros.

00:06:29.163 --> 00:06:29.644
No, that's okay.

00:06:29.644 --> 00:06:33.007
I associated the monstro with whales and hated all of them ever since.

00:06:33.007 --> 00:06:34.711
It's fair, it's fair.

00:06:35.259 --> 00:06:35.761
It's.

00:06:35.761 --> 00:06:43.615
You know I've spoken a few times before on my podcast but like it tends to be, like childhood loves will stay with you and childhood fears definitely do.

00:06:43.615 --> 00:06:47.345
Like I am the same with sleep and beauty in the spindle horrible.

00:06:47.345 --> 00:07:05.632
Yeah, monstro was just horrendous, and the and pleasure island and I I think, having watched this film and reflecting on the undertones of that, I wonder how much of that was me absorbing like shame and guilt and not, yeah, and you know, disobedience and all of those things, or was it was.

00:07:05.632 --> 00:07:07.848
Was it just that it was creepy visually?

00:07:07.848 --> 00:07:08.932
I don't know, but it's.

00:07:08.932 --> 00:07:26.170
It's such a weird one, that 1940 version, because you've got all of that really dark stuff, but then some of the the other bits are so aesthetically cute and pleasing and warm and you've got figaro the cat and clear fish and like geppetto and his little nighty and I love all of that stuff.

00:07:26.209 --> 00:07:36.408
Exactly, and you know the warmth of the blue fairy and how she grants that wish for Geppetto and Jiminy Cricket, just all around became like a mascot for.

00:07:36.468 --> 00:07:42.045
Disney, yeah, proper gen, absolutely yeah, and you know doing his best to help Pinocchio out.

00:07:42.045 --> 00:07:47.459
Yeah, even the song, you know, wish Upon a Star, that kind of is the anthem really for Disney.

00:07:47.459 --> 00:07:54.553
So it really traveled really far, considering the themes in the movie are, as you said, quite kind of dark.

00:07:54.553 --> 00:08:01.831
So, yeah, I watched it as a kid, just like you did, and there's been lots and lots of versions of this as the years have gone on.

00:08:01.831 --> 00:08:11.790
Each time I've met with the same sort of feeling, general sort of fear, but I kind of steered clear away from the Pinocchio story until this one came out.

00:08:11.790 --> 00:08:16.963
I haven't seen the Disney remake, the 2022 Disney remake live action, but I've heard it's not all.

00:08:16.963 --> 00:08:18.608
It's sort of cracked up to be.

00:08:18.608 --> 00:08:19.170
Have you seen it, tia?

00:08:19.319 --> 00:08:24.745
I think I've watched bits, but a few friends said just don't bother because it's not great.

00:08:24.745 --> 00:08:43.669
And I think it was such a mistake for them to do it at the same time as this one, particularly because, you know, especially when this one was another animation to the highest level, you could Well, yeah, like obviously stop motion, but the highest caliber you could create, and then just yeah, it kind of had everything going for it too.

00:08:43.690 --> 00:08:48.409
It had, like, Tom Hanks, Geppetto, Robert Zemeckis those two paired together for Forrest Gump before, so you're like it should win.

00:08:48.409 --> 00:08:54.830
But yeah, it just didn't communicate that to audiences and I think it did have a lot to do with the fact that Guillermo brought this one out.

00:08:54.830 --> 00:09:00.750
He'd been working on it for three years prior and, as you said, that stop motion is just sort of breathtaking.

00:09:06.320 --> 00:09:06.841
It is of breathtaking.

00:09:06.841 --> 00:09:29.940
It is and I think a lot of people generally aren't keen on the live action remakes and I think that the yeah, that contrast of seeing guillermo's work and how much heart and love had gone into it versus just a money-making like sort of rehash soulless rehash, yeah, so yeah yeah, um, speaking of that love and speaking of that, that stop-motion animation, we might dive into a little bit about that because that's, as I've said, probably the most breathtaking part of this movie and the most visually impressive.

00:09:30.301 --> 00:09:32.985
These models, these puppets, were all handmade.

00:09:32.985 --> 00:09:38.095
They combine various different stop motion features and technology that's developed over years and years.

00:09:38.095 --> 00:09:41.666
We're talking Pinocchio, for example, is a 3D printed puppet.

00:09:41.666 --> 00:09:52.328
His face, they have lots of different sort of face replacements that they use for various different shots and some of the puppets as well sort of had animatronic faces that they could sort of push and squeeze and move.

00:09:52.328 --> 00:10:03.392
That looked a little bit more like latex driven, and I love the choice that they made to make pinocchio that 3d printed puppet as opposed to the latex, because he's obviously far apart from being that human.

00:10:03.392 --> 00:10:08.206
It's kind of part of the, the actual story that he's so far removed from humanity.

00:10:08.206 --> 00:10:11.245
But yeah, I just thought that stop motion was just absolutely beautiful.

00:10:11.245 --> 00:10:12.773
What were your thoughts of it when you watched it?

00:10:12.974 --> 00:10:16.065
yeah, it was my favorite element of of the film as well.

00:10:16.065 --> 00:10:26.482
Yeah, I'm really excited I saw I haven't had a chance to watch it yet, but they've got the behind the scenes like special on netflix about it as well and I'm very excited to watch that because it is just it's.

00:10:26.482 --> 00:10:30.253
It's one of those examples of when an art form is at its highest level.

00:10:30.253 --> 00:10:43.974
There's so many beautiful small details, like one that stood out to me quite early on is when he's carving carlo's shoes and just just the wood shavings and like the movement of everything.

00:10:43.974 --> 00:10:49.787
Yeah, every single detail, like and frame has has love in in this, in this film.

00:10:49.986 --> 00:11:04.210
It's it's just mesmerizing, really breathtaking to to see, and especially when you then take a step back and think how much work went into this and how long did it take to put all this together um it's mind-blowing yeah, yeah, so it's.

00:11:04.330 --> 00:11:09.687
It's 24 frames per second, which means like 24 different movements of the character for every second.

00:11:09.687 --> 00:11:19.448
And then they, they also did the maths and they said that there was about five seconds of footage per animator per week and they had over 60 animators on the project over the three-year period.

00:11:19.448 --> 00:11:21.422
It was in production for over a thousand days.

00:11:21.422 --> 00:11:24.668
They had, you know, over a thousand puppets as well that were created.

00:11:24.668 --> 00:11:38.860
And they didn't cut any corners as well, because you, when I'm making something for claymation, for example, you just make your simple sort of sausage man and you move along as best that you can, because then you don't have to worry about, you know, moving hair, moving vests, things like that.

00:11:38.860 --> 00:11:48.649
But even the character of, say, volpe, for example, with his long illust hair, arced nose and then that billowing overcoat, the way that that moves and swishes, is almost sort of natural.

00:11:49.520 --> 00:11:55.106
That was a deliberate choice to do and it obviously would have put in a thousand times more work to pull off correctly.

00:11:55.106 --> 00:12:13.326
And not only that, that deliberate sort of choice to animate those elements of character design, but I also found it really endearing that characters would have mistakes animated, and I heard guillermo talking about this when he did his behind the scenes where you can see it, when sort of spazitura goes to to knock on volpe's door.

00:12:13.326 --> 00:12:17.267
He kind of goes to knock and he's like oh, I don't know about that, and he scratches his face and then he knocks again.

00:12:17.267 --> 00:12:24.928
I'm like that would have taken that's like three seconds of animation, which therefore would have taken about a week to animate him just thinking about knocking on the door.

00:12:24.928 --> 00:12:29.956
So I'm like those mistakes are just sort of animated in to make it seem like it's so real.

00:12:30.500 --> 00:12:47.597
And, as you said about the carving with the wooden shoes, I love the scene when Geppetto had a little bit too much to drink and was obviously carving Pinocchio, because when he was putting things down, like the bottle would go down and it would knock like a nail and then they'd have to animate the nail rolling around and even those tiny little things that they just had to animate.

00:12:47.597 --> 00:12:54.839
They didn't just stop when it came to animating the characters, it was just mind-blowing yeah, it really is.

00:12:54.980 --> 00:13:04.769
Like it is just I don't know how else to say it beyond that, but I think you could watch this an infinite amount of times and find something new each time, because there is so much detail in there.

00:13:05.190 --> 00:13:06.052
I 100% agree.

00:13:06.052 --> 00:13:07.173
It's a masterpiece.

00:13:07.173 --> 00:13:20.583
Do you remember the scene when Spazitura was kind of like swinging down the lights and going through the sort of carnival sequence and then in the background there was lots of different claymation puppets like lifting weights or moving things around the area and sort of jumping through the carnival sequence?

00:13:20.583 --> 00:13:27.083
There he was on his way to sort of Volpe's caravan at that point oh, yeah, yeah, and that shot there.

00:13:27.264 --> 00:13:36.850
It was shot with a roving camera, so it was a moving camera that went across, but it was also that was 24 seconds of film and it was just one of the most elaborate and beautiful pieces that I've ever seen.

00:13:36.850 --> 00:13:39.970
That's probably my favorite scene of the movie, just for how artistic it is.

00:13:39.970 --> 00:13:47.504
But yeah, it's just, you know, 60 handcrafted sets as well.

00:13:47.504 --> 00:13:48.485
All the set design was made.

00:13:48.485 --> 00:13:51.793
You know, the churches, the boats, the townships, volpe's sort of theater production that was all kind of made.

00:13:51.793 --> 00:13:53.466
It was just, yeah, it's amazing.

00:13:53.466 --> 00:13:59.692
Yeah, it's no wonder that it won the Oscar for Best Animator Featuring 2023.

00:14:00.360 --> 00:14:02.601
It would have been criminal for it not to win, wouldn't it?

00:14:02.962 --> 00:14:03.602
Absolutely.

00:14:03.702 --> 00:14:04.803
What they've done with them all.

00:14:04.803 --> 00:14:08.167
Now I wonder if they're in a museum or exhibition or something.

00:14:08.288 --> 00:14:11.169
I would hope so, because unless Guillermo kept them.

00:14:11.750 --> 00:14:12.431
Yeah maybe?

00:14:12.851 --> 00:14:26.769
Yeah, because there was heaps of them actually, because they didn't just keep one puppet per character, they had multiple, obviously for various different reasons, and they were all about 13 inches tall, so just a little bit bigger than a Subway sandwich.

00:14:26.769 --> 00:14:31.034
But some of the ones that they did were actually really huge, like Pinocchio's head, for example.

00:14:31.034 --> 00:14:37.539
They made a really large-scale one of Pinocchio's head so they could animate Jiminy Cricket moving up his nose.

00:14:37.539 --> 00:14:40.288
Yeah, because it would have been harder to do it in a smaller scale.

00:14:40.288 --> 00:14:46.503
So it's just like the thought and the care that sort of went through that and it was obviously a labor of love.

00:14:46.503 --> 00:15:02.427
And I think kiamo has a fondness for these kinds of stories, because he's obviously done pinocchio now but then he's moving now into doing frankenstein as well, which is sort of like another I was going to say actually the, the, when you know he's, he's drunk and making pinocchio, it's very frankenstein influence, isn't it?

00:15:02.466 --> 00:15:04.293
with the storm outside and everything.

00:15:04.293 --> 00:15:06.280
I loved it actually, that scene.

00:15:06.280 --> 00:15:07.644
It this time watching it.

00:15:07.644 --> 00:15:10.451
I don't know if you've seen Parks and Rec before, but there's a.

00:15:10.451 --> 00:15:14.749
There's a meme of like did a would a depressed person make this?

00:15:14.889 --> 00:15:23.865
you've seen that one no, I haven't seen that one, but I can definitely attest to it because I loved that, that initial scene when Pinocchio first wakes up for the first time.

00:15:23.904 --> 00:15:29.129
He's like barely human in the way that he moved Like that is so horrific and Frankenstein-like.

00:15:29.220 --> 00:15:39.706
But I love that they started that way because it shows his growth from like literally not knowing how to be a human to then becoming one of the kindest and nicest boys to ever walk the planet Earth.

00:15:39.706 --> 00:15:49.190
I agree completely with you that storm sequence outside the scene where he's sort of crafting, completely Frankenstein-like, and there are a lot of similarities in that vein too.

00:15:49.190 --> 00:15:51.547
So I can definitely see it, yeah.

00:15:51.547 --> 00:15:52.408
So let's move on.

00:15:52.408 --> 00:16:00.875
Now We'll go to having a little bit of a look at some of the characters and how they sort of grew across the picture or across the movie.

00:16:00.875 --> 00:16:17.011
So, as we're looking at sort of Geppetto, we kind of start with him and he's like I don't know how to say this sensitively, but like he's a grieving father because he's obviously lost his son and I can't imagine the kind of grief that that would impart on somebody.

00:16:17.011 --> 00:16:28.669
But I feel like it's been portrayed on screen just so beautifully well, especially the times after Carlo passes away, because he is very rough around the edges.

00:16:28.669 --> 00:16:30.567
Geppetto is at the start of the movie.

00:16:30.779 --> 00:16:42.067
Yeah, I mean, I hadn't seen this until a few months ago when we talked about covering it, and the first time I watched it, that opening sequence with Carlo was my highlight of the film.

00:16:42.067 --> 00:16:48.250
I re-watched it again this morning actually, and I enjoyed the whole film more overall on the second watch.

00:16:48.250 --> 00:16:56.870
But yeah, the pain and emotion they pack into that and his grief afterwards is just horrendous to watch.

00:16:56.970 --> 00:16:57.591
Absolutely yeah.

00:16:57.980 --> 00:16:58.868
Really heartbreaking.

00:16:58.868 --> 00:17:10.871
But but you know, in a very human way you have all those feelings of frustration towards him as well, because he is just obviously coming from a place of pain and grief.

00:17:10.871 --> 00:17:33.084
He's so awful to Pinocchio in the beginning, through such a wealth and roller coaster of emotions with him, considering how briefly he's on screen, like like you are straight in there with him and and just in this complete, complete turbulence that he's obviously going through as well.

00:17:33.084 --> 00:17:35.413
But yeah, he is a flawed character.

00:17:35.413 --> 00:17:52.162
But I guess that so much of that exploration is is that you know, parents are just people too, trying their best, and and I think there's definitely, definitely it flips a lot between that perspective of the way parents see the world and are trying their best and the way it's then interpreted to the child.

00:17:52.162 --> 00:17:55.299
Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's incredible.

00:17:55.922 --> 00:18:17.342
Yeah, and I think that Geppetto, through his flips and flops in grief, is part of Pinocchio's journey obviously as well, because he's quite grief-stricken, obviously creates Pinocchio in that way and he doesn't really want a piece of him to start with, but then he kind of embraces that idea, thinking that he's actually found his replacement for his son.

00:18:17.342 --> 00:18:35.174
And part of the learning that Geppetto goes through as well is learning that you know that love that he had for Carlo is special, but it's a different kind of love that he's going to have to grow for Pinocchio, because Pinocchio is a different sort of child and a very different boy in that space.

00:18:35.255 --> 00:18:48.432
But even with that sort of difference in his mind, I still like that Geppetto sort of championed and protected Pinocchio's individualism in front of all the townspeople as well.

00:18:48.432 --> 00:18:53.988
So when they were calling him horrible names and things like that, he sort of took him home and had words to him.

00:18:53.988 --> 00:18:57.544
But then there was that beautiful scene where he's kind of telling him a story and tucking him into bed.

00:18:58.185 --> 00:18:58.386
Yeah.

00:18:59.055 --> 00:19:02.377
And he's treating him like a son, basically, him like a son, basically.

00:19:02.377 --> 00:19:10.905
So there is that element to him that is caring towards Pinocchio, despite the fact that the outside pressures are telling him that your child is different.

00:19:10.905 --> 00:19:28.665
So that's another element of Geppetto that I really really connected to and liked as well, and obviously, throughout all Pinocchio stories, geppetto is a character that is extremely determined to find his son when he goes missing and and you know, correct the mistake that he made, which I think is something that a lot of parents can relate to.

00:19:29.296 --> 00:19:34.738
All the time, you know doing your best, basically and I think you know obviously I said he was, he was awful to pinocchio.

00:19:34.738 --> 00:19:43.763
But I will say it's no offense to anyone who has kids and I'm sure this is yourself included but those early scenes when pinocchio first wakes up is like the best advert for me not to have children.

00:19:43.763 --> 00:19:53.742
It's like horrifying, it's like just carnage toddler just smashing the place that's a Tuesday in this house it was more the it's the screaming for the hot chocolate.

00:19:53.784 --> 00:20:02.434
I was like, oh no, that was so real but but yeah, I like even that that part there, when he's screaming for the hot chocolate.

00:20:02.434 --> 00:20:07.942
And you know, podesto, podestro, podesto, he's, he's there and and so screaming for the hot chocolate, and you know, pedesto, pedestro, pedesto, he's there and so is the priest.

00:20:07.942 --> 00:20:11.425
Geppetto was kind of like trying to play face and he was just like no, no, go and sit over there.

00:20:11.425 --> 00:20:13.348
And then he's just like here, have the hot chocolate.

00:20:13.348 --> 00:20:14.891
It's like what parent hasn't done that?

00:20:14.891 --> 00:20:19.200
It's just like go, yeah, I mean like it would definitely be what I'd do.

00:20:19.840 --> 00:20:25.490
But, you're just saying as well about him just trying to replace Carlo and then accepting Pinocchio.

00:20:25.490 --> 00:20:31.406
I guess he drowns his grief in drink and then he still isn't dealing with it.

00:20:31.406 --> 00:20:36.820
With Pinocchio he's just like great, I've replaced Carlo, I've just put a plaster over it.

00:20:36.820 --> 00:20:42.967
But it's not actually until he deals with it and lets Carlo go that he can love Pinocchio in the way that he actually should.

00:20:43.535 --> 00:20:52.287
Yeah, and I think a big person in helping him get through that is obviously Pinocchio, but also the cricket, which is Sebastian J Cricket or something like that in this one.

00:20:52.535 --> 00:20:55.582
Not Jiminy like usual, he's so good played by Ewan McGregor.

00:20:55.582 --> 00:20:57.359
I think they cast him perfectly.

00:20:57.359 --> 00:20:58.605
Yeah, absolutely.

00:20:58.605 --> 00:21:06.618
He's got that English sort of deadpan delivery in his comedy, but he's also very emotionally heartfelt in the way that he speaks as well.

00:21:06.618 --> 00:21:08.864
Yeah, I think that jiminy cricket.

00:21:08.864 --> 00:21:11.759
He also said you know very, very critical line in the movie.

00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:14.265
He said you know the boy loves you for who you are.

00:21:14.265 --> 00:21:17.621
Is it too much for you to do the same for him?

00:21:17.921 --> 00:21:19.846
basically so I'm gonna say that scene.

00:21:19.846 --> 00:21:30.650
It's like you know, we see these kind of renditions all the time of people's like brains or conscious, like them, talking to them from an outside manifestation.

00:21:30.650 --> 00:21:37.147
But yeah, that was obviously like when you think that's his conscience talking that's him having a go at himself.

00:21:37.147 --> 00:21:39.682
Really it's yeah, it's a really amazing scene.

00:21:40.115 --> 00:22:24.656
Yeah, yeah, and I also like that they didn't play Sebastian Cricket in this as that, the same way that they did Jiminy basically in the original Disney, not only by design, but he sort of started the others grow and it just goes to show how many lives Pinocchio kind of touched in the way that he was so individually and unapologetically himself and I really liked how he, like Sebastian, would advocate for Pinocchio in that sort of manner and, as you said as well, you know he is that sort of conscience on the side and but he's also sort of his own character.

00:22:24.656 --> 00:22:26.880
You said as well, you know he is that sort of conscience on the side and but he's also sort of his own character as well.

00:22:26.880 --> 00:22:30.803
But he plays that conscience character not only for pinocchio but also for geppetto.

00:22:31.044 --> 00:22:48.688
I think that's that's really awesome part of his character and himself really, because I think he, you know, like his motivations do change, as you say, and he grows and there's something, yeah, very nice about just trying to observe life and write about it with those kind of motivations and then actually realizing you want to be a part of it.

00:22:48.688 --> 00:22:50.369
Yeah, all very beautiful.

00:22:50.931 --> 00:22:59.509
Absolutely and I think that at the two things I think them putting the running gag in that you just get squished all the time is when he starts to try and sing.

00:22:59.509 --> 00:23:00.210
A song is great.

00:23:00.315 --> 00:23:02.343
Actually because Hugh McGregor's voice is amazing.

00:23:02.535 --> 00:23:03.077
So you're like oh great.

00:23:03.097 --> 00:23:04.586
Cut it short, yeah, because Hugh McGregor's voice is amazing.

00:23:04.605 --> 00:23:05.652
So you're like, oh great, cut it short.

00:23:05.652 --> 00:23:06.214
Yeah, that's it.

00:23:06.214 --> 00:23:23.622
But then the second thing is at the end, when he starts trying to present his life in this scholarly manner, he ends up sort of giving away a wish that could give him really anything to bring back Pinocchio, which is the complete selfless act act and an amazing turnaround for that sort of character to go through as well.

00:23:23.622 --> 00:23:30.596
So I think sebastian is just yeah, I'm gonna say it, I think he's better than jiminy yeah, no, he is, he is, you know, the.

00:23:31.176 --> 00:23:48.133
There's obviously a lot more depth to this version and he is a much more rounded and interesting character because he's, he's, goes on his own journey, like you say, where original jiminy's just yeah, he's kind of all time absolutely he's pushing that obedience, isn't he, which is good boys do this.

00:23:48.212 --> 00:23:53.029
And actually he does start off that way as well, because he, he says to to Pinocchio.

00:23:53.029 --> 00:23:56.605
He says you must obey, you have to do as your papa says.

00:23:56.605 --> 00:23:59.375
And then Pinocchio turns around, says, but I don't want to do what my papa says.

00:23:59.375 --> 00:24:03.361
And then he goes okay, well, then you must do your best and that's all you can do.

00:24:03.361 --> 00:24:17.907
So yeah, I think it was very early on that we learned that Pinocchio kind of wasn't going to move in the same sort of transitional way as the original Pinocchio did Like, to the point where, at the end of this, when they're talking about him being a real boy, it looked very different in this movie as well.

00:24:18.957 --> 00:24:20.723
Yeah, he's still his puppet self.

00:24:20.723 --> 00:24:24.125
It's just, you know, mortal to an extent.

00:24:27.714 --> 00:24:29.138
It's not necessarily defined in clear-cut terms.

00:24:29.138 --> 00:24:29.720
Yeah, yeah, I don't think so.

00:24:29.861 --> 00:24:37.788
Yeah, I thought that was interesting because I think it would have been in this version to go through all of that exploration of accepting him for who he is.

00:24:37.788 --> 00:24:41.480
It would have then been totally off to to change his form.

00:24:42.201 --> 00:24:53.202
I absolutely agree, because I think he not only learned to accept himself well, he always accepted himself it was kind of the environment around him that was needing to sort of go through that acceptance.

00:24:53.282 --> 00:24:57.519
But then for him to then conform to that environment by looking like everybody else, I think you're right.

00:24:57.519 --> 00:24:58.823
I think it would have been totally off.

00:24:58.823 --> 00:25:20.925
I think the real boy element for me comes from he actually learned how to feel, I guess, and mature in his sort of feelings, because at the start you know he's demanding hot chocolate, he's acting on impulse, he's sort of emotionally loud all the time, and then he sort of learns to become very empathetic because he's obviously expressing a lot of emotions as a very emotional being.

00:25:20.925 --> 00:25:27.580
But then the flip side of that is you also sort of can recognize a lot of those emotions from other people which he ends up doing.

00:25:27.882 --> 00:25:42.616
One thing from Pinocchio that sort of did strike me in this is the concept of how conditionally loved he is at times, which I think is very evident in the Volpe sort of arc, when he's being used basically and exploited for his talent.

00:25:42.616 --> 00:26:05.724
But then even, I think, for Geppetto, as we were saying before, he is very well loved when he's acting good like Carlo, did be a good boy like Carlo, but then when he was presenting behaviours that were considered obtrusive, then he would be called a burden, and I think that that sort of conditional love is something that was really sort of stood out to me as well as a theme in this movie.

00:26:05.945 --> 00:26:06.827
Yeah, yeah, definitely.

00:26:06.827 --> 00:26:18.469
And I think it's obviously even more sort of I can't think of what the word is sort of prevalent in Geppetto, literally like creating Pinocchio in one night.

00:26:18.469 --> 00:26:19.656
It's kind of like he didn't.

00:26:19.656 --> 00:26:23.522
You look at parenthood and things, and people don't ask to be brought into the world.

00:26:23.522 --> 00:26:35.119
If you're making that choice you can't then you know you have the responsibility and you've got to got to love them unconditionally really so it's, yeah, a really interesting part of both of their journeys really and it definitely explains.

00:26:35.339 --> 00:27:13.285
You know, in the 1940 disney version you get the impression planicchio just runs off because he wants, he's got all of that temptation, whereas this is much more about him wanting validation and and love and approval really yeah, that's such a good point as a masterful change in my opinion as well, because it it excuse my ignorance of pinocchio from the 1940s, but it kind of changes him from being that sort of brattish, childlike sort of character, which I do say that he expressed a lot of innocence of childhood there, but also can come off as a little bit brattish to this kid that really just wants that acceptance and wants and he's also kind of ignorant to it as well at the start.

00:27:13.385 --> 00:27:24.986
But as his journey goes on he kind of realizes that he doesn't really fit in in places and his journey is how can he be himself and fit in this world of of fascist italy?

00:27:24.986 --> 00:27:37.766
And I think guillermo did an amazing job by putting it in that kind of environment, because that environment and that part of history in in fascist italy was all about control and obedience formity.

00:27:37.885 --> 00:27:42.615
Yeah, and all of pinocchio's behavior is coming from a place of curiosity.

00:27:42.615 --> 00:27:43.997
They say you've got to obey your father?

00:27:43.997 --> 00:27:44.076
Why?

00:27:44.076 --> 00:27:45.116
Well, you just have to, you have to go.

00:27:45.116 --> 00:27:46.258
They say you've got to obey your father why?

00:27:46.258 --> 00:27:46.758
Well, you just have to.

00:27:46.758 --> 00:27:48.719
You have to go to school because you just have to.

00:27:48.719 --> 00:27:50.420
He's not allowed to question anything.

00:27:50.420 --> 00:27:59.703
Yeah, and obviously with the backdrop of fascist Italy, people are not actually allowed to question the system and have their own.

00:28:00.104 --> 00:28:06.686
There's even a line actually isn't there from I've forgotten the character's name where he says oh, he's a free-thinking individual spirit.

00:28:06.686 --> 00:28:08.386
We don't like that.

00:28:08.386 --> 00:28:09.288
Yeah, we don't like that at all.

00:28:09.928 --> 00:28:19.172
I thought it was really interesting just to mention off your point that Pinocchio was displaying all these abhorrent qualities of individualism.

00:28:19.172 --> 00:28:22.792
And then, you know, podestro's answer to that was send him to school.

00:28:22.792 --> 00:28:24.818
I thought that was pretty funny.

00:28:24.818 --> 00:28:26.994
It was just like, well, that'll turn him into, you know, a smart boy.

00:28:26.994 --> 00:28:35.307
And then Pedestro's conditional love we might say for Pinocchio then enhances when he realizes that he can be useful in a warlike environment.

00:28:35.928 --> 00:28:36.209
Yeah.

00:28:36.568 --> 00:28:36.809
Yeah.

00:28:37.029 --> 00:28:39.222
Yeah, that was the first time I watched this.

00:28:39.222 --> 00:28:50.695
It was a bit of a because I went in quite blind, so it of a like because I.

00:28:50.695 --> 00:28:54.748
I went in quite blind so it was a bit of a shock to have this backdrop, but you know it, it just, it just really works and it definitely works thematically with with everything else going on.

00:28:54.768 --> 00:29:05.355
No, I think combining pinocchio and candlewick, as well as two different sort of childhood characters, together, was really smart, because candlewick's obviously a product of the system and pinocchio is definitely not.

00:29:05.476 --> 00:29:09.346
So putting them together, you can see the absolute differences between the two boys.

00:29:09.386 --> 00:29:30.806
But then there's that beautiful scene where they're sort of in their bunks and they're talking about how they reflect upon how their fathers treat them, and you could say that they both have experienced very similar things in terms of their their fathers treating them a particular way, and obviously one coming from a place of extreme grief and one coming from conformity to a governmental oppressive system.

00:29:31.815 --> 00:29:40.585
And I think that, even though they have those differences, pinocchio and Candlewick are still able to connect on the fact that they really just want to be loved by their father for who they are.

00:29:40.585 --> 00:29:52.281
And it gets to the point where Candlewick actually says at the end, when he's confronted with the the choice of of shooting pinocchio, he said I may be afraid and I may be weak in your eyes, but I can still say no to you.

00:29:52.281 --> 00:30:12.946
And he learns that from pinocchio, which I think is absolutely beautiful and goes back to the point where we were talking about how pinocchio literally changes everybody he touches through his individual self, which is a beautiful reflection of, and also a beautiful advocation of being yourself in different sort of situations, especially oppressive ones.

00:30:12.988 --> 00:30:14.438
So I found it.

00:30:14.438 --> 00:30:15.922
I've noticed it more this time.

00:30:15.922 --> 00:30:27.203
I found it a bit of a shame that they don't really explain what happens to candlewick, like you see that I think he crawls out of the wreckage after that explosion but he doesn't come back again I suppose you know kind of that's war.

00:30:27.403 --> 00:30:36.846
Maybe he doesn't and I think that I think his, his story purpose you might say, kind of ended there where you can sort of say you know he's, he's done that sort of purpose for pinocchio and he in pinocchio's story.

00:30:36.846 --> 00:30:43.741
But for pinocchio, poor thing, he went from that environment straight to being, you know, strapped to a piece of wood by volpe and lit on fire.

00:30:43.781 --> 00:31:00.336
So that sort of thing and obviously spazitura is very like similar sort of story to to what candlewick's going through with his father and that you know, those scenes are sort of back to back of him finally standing up to to volpe and yeah, I mean, I say him, I don't know spazitura is yeah, I'm not sure either.

00:31:00.355 --> 00:31:02.740
I'm not sure if they've they gender or them.

00:31:03.261 --> 00:31:04.444
See who it was voiced by then.

00:31:04.786 --> 00:31:08.835
Yeah, absolutely, and.

00:31:08.855 --> 00:31:09.596
Cate Blanchett, which is amazing.

00:31:09.596 --> 00:31:12.346
It blew my mind because the wood spirit and death.

00:31:12.346 --> 00:31:17.323
I thought that was Cate Blanchett because I do get her and Tilda Swinton's voices confused quite a lot.

00:31:17.323 --> 00:31:22.708
And then I IMDb'd it and I was like, yeah, there's Cate Blanchett, okay yeah.

00:31:28.595 --> 00:31:28.996
No, it okay.

00:31:28.996 --> 00:31:29.237
Yeah, no, I I.

00:31:29.237 --> 00:31:35.941
I saw an interview with her and she is a massive fan of guillermo's work and he she heard that he was working on this movie, pinocchio, and he said I will do any part that he will give me.

00:31:36.061 --> 00:31:38.292
And he said, well, I only really have, because he was gonna.

00:31:38.292 --> 00:31:39.960
He was gonna do sound effects for spazitore.

00:31:39.960 --> 00:31:40.843
And he said I really only have.

00:31:40.843 --> 00:31:42.996
Like, I could do spazitore, you could do the voice of a monkey.

00:31:42.996 --> 00:31:43.736
And she goes I I'll do it.

00:31:43.736 --> 00:31:50.300
Yeah, so she just loves working with him so much and I can attest that I would do anything to be a part of this movie too.

00:31:50.300 --> 00:31:52.402
But it has a pretty phenomenal voice cast too.

00:31:52.402 --> 00:31:54.663
You know, obviously we said Ewan McGregor.

00:31:54.663 --> 00:32:00.627
There's David Bradley as Geppetto, who was obviously Mr Filch in Harry Potter.

00:32:00.627 --> 00:32:04.431
Ron Perlman, who is a frequent collaborator with Guillermo del Toro.

00:32:04.431 --> 00:32:07.173
He was Hellboy and he played Podesto.

00:32:07.173 --> 00:32:09.303
His deep voice can't be mistaken for anybody.

00:32:09.303 --> 00:32:12.124
But then also Finn Wolfhard from Stranger Things.

00:32:12.124 --> 00:32:15.102
Yeah, he was, what would you say now Candlewick.

00:32:15.805 --> 00:32:18.433
Yeah, yeah, he's a really nice voice, it's good.

00:32:18.473 --> 00:32:22.319
Yeah, oh, and obviously Christoph Waltz as well, whose voice is unmistakable.

00:32:22.319 --> 00:32:32.067
All right, Were you ready to talk about your most valuable takeaways from the movie Tia?

00:32:32.875 --> 00:32:33.336
Yeah, yeah.

00:32:33.336 --> 00:32:38.548
So I think for me it's the final line of the film.

00:32:38.548 --> 00:32:42.021
That's when it sort of really had the big impact on me.

00:32:42.021 --> 00:32:45.509
Is that what happens happens and then we're gone.

00:32:45.509 --> 00:32:51.575
And obviously the film does explore life and our purpose and death and all of those things.

00:32:51.575 --> 00:32:52.000
Just as a side note.

00:32:52.000 --> 00:32:53.468
The death sort of sequences are beautiful.

00:32:53.468 --> 00:32:53.762
I really death and all of those things.

00:32:53.762 --> 00:32:55.665
Just as a side note the death sort of sequences are beautiful.

00:32:55.705 --> 00:32:57.528
I really really loved all of those.

00:32:57.729 --> 00:33:06.898
But yeah, I guess you've even got the sand timers there and this concept of us all being on borrowed time and it being short and what you're going to do with that time.

00:33:06.959 --> 00:33:28.038
And I think it's really interesting that the film explores religion and then obviously fascism and these ideas of higher powers that people are serving, but ultimately, the one that matters is is your loved ones and and being selfless and and living for other people and and just just appreciating the life you have as well.

00:33:28.038 --> 00:34:04.582
And I think on the flip side of that, you know, this idea that it's fleeting also explores that you can find life after grief, obviously for geppetto, pinocchio at the end as well, continuing without all of his friends and just, yeah, the beauty of that and yeah, I think just all of those those scenes tie in beautifully and that was sort of what really hit me most in the film yeah, I, I agree, because I feel like that's also a lesson that Pinocchio learns through the movie as well, because those first few times that he well, the first time obviously it was a bit of a shock, but then after that the way he talks about death is just like, yeah, I've died lots of times, it's fine.

00:34:04.816 --> 00:34:17.144
And he ends up then making those sort of sacrifices because he kind of knows that there is no consequence, you might say, to those kinds of sacrifices, but what makes them a sacrifice is that you're losing something pretty significant.

00:34:17.144 --> 00:34:25.461
And then he, he actually comes to that conclusion when he obviously has to give up his immortality to save geppetto at that time.

00:34:25.461 --> 00:34:28.510
So I I think that that that is a beautiful takeaway.

00:34:28.510 --> 00:34:46.226
But it's also a beautiful lesson that the characters sort of go through in this space and I completely agree, those sequences of death and even like the sand timers and and how beautifully backlit those playing animated characters are in that space, and the rabbits as well, and just they kind of flipped it on that sort of tongue-in-cheek, humorous tone at that point.

00:34:46.226 --> 00:34:55.304
One of my favorite sort of death scenes that sort of happened was when pinocchio got shot, but then it sort of it snapped from the gunshot to him, just busting out of the coffin.

00:34:55.525 --> 00:35:02.170
There he is, it's you again yeah, exactly, and then you know, obviously Sebastian's there playing cards with them at the end.

00:35:02.170 --> 00:35:20.005
But I really love the fact that Guillermo was able to explore grief and obviously death, but then the meaning of life through that as well, and the fact that it, as you said, that sort of fleeting instance that makes it important and the fact that you know Pinocchio ends up carrying Sebastian with him always, you know, in his heart.

00:35:20.737 --> 00:35:22.000
Oh God yeah, that broke me.

00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:35.481
Yeah, really broke me, and obviously it then finishes on the acorn as well like a beautiful cyclical thing as well, and I think it sort of explores the what happens happens and then we're gone.

00:35:35.481 --> 00:35:38.554
It's the accepting that we all, we all have to go at some point.

00:35:38.554 --> 00:35:41.380
Also, I guess the kind of the meaningless of life.

00:35:41.380 --> 00:35:44.556
But what then, on the flip side, what gives our life meaning?

00:35:44.556 --> 00:35:48.186
And I think the exploration of religion, like I said, is really interesting.

00:35:48.226 --> 00:35:57.929
I think the fact carlo gets blown up in a church in a random act that wasn't supposed to happen, without any real meaning to it.

00:35:57.929 --> 00:35:59.016
It's just.

00:35:59.016 --> 00:36:02.065
It's kind of like exploring how that kind of is how it goes.

00:36:02.635 --> 00:36:12.182
There were kind of a few sort of religious parallels in the movie as well, especially where, you know, pinocchio first saw the efficacy of Jesus in the church and he says he's wooden and they all love him.

00:36:12.182 --> 00:36:13.996
Why don't they love me?

00:36:13.996 --> 00:36:17.485
I thought that was really brilliant and really sort of insightful.

00:36:17.485 --> 00:36:39.925
But then also, as the movie went on, I sort of started to notice from that point on the similarities between that jesus effigy and pinocchio as he sort of traveled along the film, because when volpe sort of straps him to the piece of wood he's obviously in a sort of crucifix situation there, and then after he gets blown up after fighting the dogfish, he's missing the same arm as the Jesus at the start was missing too.

00:36:39.925 --> 00:36:47.382
So I'm not sure what they're sort of going for there, but even like the resurrection, you know that he sort of goes through at that point.

00:36:47.635 --> 00:37:00.271
Yeah, that might be something I'll have to sort of dive a little bit deeper into, but I think that there's definitely some some undertones there that need to be explored and it might just be, you know, back onto that life, death and and fate and destiny sort of situations.

00:37:00.271 --> 00:37:03.681
But yeah, I think that that's really really, really insightful.

00:37:03.681 --> 00:37:17.943
All right, my takeaway was that obviously, uniqueness isn't a flaw to be corrected, but it is a truth to be embraced, and it kind of speaks to, obviously, children that are kind of emotionally intense.

00:37:17.943 --> 00:37:29.704
And I can relate to this because I was a child that was pretty emotionally intense at times, being told that you're too disruptive, too sensitive, too emotional, especially as a guy as well.

00:37:29.903 --> 00:38:12.184
That's kind of the transition that I went through with this movie and I like the fact that when they looked at pinocchio in this film, it didn't frame it as like a deficit, because he was obviously trying to be himself in this and he was sort of the world kind of refused to make space for for pinocchio in that that space, and when he couldn't replace carlo, he's obviously seeking that connection as well, because in the film pinocchio actually said was carlo a good boy and geppetto said yes and he goes well, I'll be just like carlo, because he kind of wants that connection and he wants that affection and that kind of resembled like masking to me, like, and and also especially when he was performing in front of everybody and he was just so happy.

00:38:12.224 --> 00:38:22.626
And you look at his sort of face, as soon as the curtain closes because he's away from his father and the the score undertoning, you know, the papa song, he's obviously really sad, but then in front of everybody he's just so happy all the time.

00:38:22.626 --> 00:38:28.135
So I kind of spoke to that sort of masking quality that a lot of neurodivergent children sort of go through as well.

00:38:28.135 --> 00:38:33.547
And then, you know, there was the painful line of why can't you be a good boy just like carlo?

00:38:33.547 --> 00:38:44.217
It kind of reflects that experience that a lot of parents go through, where they struggle to accept a child that's sort of neurodivergent and the expectations of sort of society on those neurodivergent kids.

00:38:44.217 --> 00:38:52.789
And especially with geppetto, because it was like he was a man that was unlearning the belief that love has to be earned through conformity.

00:38:52.789 --> 00:39:02.206
He had to learn to love pinocchio for who he is and not for what he wanted him to be or what he thought he could be, and I thought that was just beautifully represented in this movie wow, that's.

00:39:02.327 --> 00:39:05.557
That's really beautiful and um all makes perfect sense.

00:39:05.838 --> 00:39:20.126
Yeah, amazing yeah, I that's like I really really enjoy this, take and love this movie because I feel like it speaks to a lot of different human qualities and I feel like it's so amazing because anybody that watches it can obviously take something different from it.

00:39:20.126 --> 00:39:25.967
But also, each time you watch it, you could take something different from it, not just visually but also thematically.

00:39:26.876 --> 00:39:28.141
It's so layered and rich.

00:39:28.141 --> 00:39:31.804
I was just admiring on the rewatch today.

00:39:31.804 --> 00:39:33.655
Rich, isn't it?

00:39:33.655 --> 00:39:40.057
Like even just I was just admiring on the rewatch today, like obviously you've got the, the genius decision to make everyone to use puppets to have a film about a puppet, but obviously with the backdrop of the war.

00:39:40.057 --> 00:39:42.503
People are just puppets in war and propaganda.

00:39:42.523 --> 00:39:52.925
So yeah, I mean that you can just, yeah, layers and layers and layers and layers it's so clever and I think that, yeah, the most beautiful part for me is obviously the fact that they didn't make him a real boy at the end.

00:39:52.925 --> 00:39:58.507
I really love that part because, as you touched on, you know, if he changed it wouldn't have fit the tone of the film.

00:39:58.507 --> 00:40:19.242
But also, he's real because he feels and he is loved because of who he is and not for who he turns into or how obedient he is, and you know, he can be himself safely and fully and without shame, and that's that's probably the most beautiful part of this story that I sort of came across.

00:40:19.983 --> 00:40:20.625
That's amazing.

00:40:20.846 --> 00:40:31.521
I yeah, I'm gonna have to watch it again yeah in mind now well, I I hope that it's a good rewatch because, as we said, you know you can take it into lots of different spaces.

00:40:31.521 --> 00:40:34.507
But, yeah, okay, tia, I want to really thank you for joining me.

00:40:34.507 --> 00:40:41.041
This has been an amazing and beautiful chat about a movie that I really do hold dear, and thank you for coming on the podcast.

00:40:41.902 --> 00:40:42.565
You're so welcome.

00:40:42.565 --> 00:40:43.487
Thank you for having me.

00:40:43.735 --> 00:40:50.219
Did you want to just tell us where everybody on the internet can find you as well, and we'll have all these notes in the show notes for everybody as well.

00:40:50.418 --> 00:40:54.043
This is tia jackson guys yeah, so you can find me on social media.

00:40:54.043 --> 00:41:01.826
So instagram, freds and blue sky at the alien effect pod, or you can email me at the alien effect pod at gmailcom.

00:41:01.987 --> 00:41:20.126
So, yeah, feel free to get in touch and yeah, enjoy geek out with a lot of different guests that tia has, so you do weekly episodes, tia fortnightly, but I I might be spacing out a bit more because it's time consuming Absolutely, and you know we talked a little bit about it at the start, but it's a really big undertaking.

00:41:20.414 --> 00:41:28.324
You know we do this to express a need or because we love it so much, but it does take a little bit of time and I really do appreciate your time today to be on the show.

00:41:29.416 --> 00:41:30.762
It's been an absolute joy, honestly.

00:41:33.416 --> 00:41:34.539
Yeah, I'll happily chat any times.

00:41:34.579 --> 00:41:36.365
Thank you, you're always welcome as well if you want to.

00:41:36.385 --> 00:41:38.974
Yeah absolutely, and yeah, that's it for me.

00:41:38.974 --> 00:41:39.797
I'll catch you guys later.

00:41:39.797 --> 00:41:47.500